Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 765 times)

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
General Discussion
« on: July 31, 2018, 11:51:59 pm »
I'm not sure, yet.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Google+


MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 03:17:26 am »
Might as well be the first here! Forgot to mention it previously, was wondering if your XG2402's contrast setting and green/blue RGB channel settings behave oddly too. For example, contrast at 70 and green at 100 causes a lot of the lower squares in the white saturation test to be completely invisible. The blue channel causes a very odd and strong blue tint to certain shades of off angle whites/light grays (Most notably the URL bar of Chrome being very blue tinted at the very edges/off angle, but the surrounding shades still yellowish) The red channel seems to be fine though.

No big issue, as it was fully fixed by lowering the green to 96, and having the blue 95 or lower, just a very odd quirk. Contrast at 68-69 with 100/100 has no issue either, but I keep it the other way, as I had to lower those RGB channels anyway.

Decided to also stick with black stabilizer 9 for now:

https://imgur.com/N7cywPt
https://imgur.com/HPbpLze

Though I wish it didn't hit red shades as much as it does (Well, at least blues apparently got much better according to the i1)

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 11:59:44 pm »
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Might as well be the first here! Forgot to mention it previously, was wondering if your XG2402's contrast setting and green/blue RGB channel settings behave oddly too. For example, contrast at 70 and green at 100 causes a lot of the lower squares in the white saturation test to be completely invisible. The blue channel causes a very odd and strong blue tint to certain shades of off angle whites/light grays (Most notably the URL bar of Chrome being very blue tinted at the very edges/off angle, but the surrounding shades still yellowish) The red channel seems to be fine though.

I encountered similar weird contrast issues as well.  The Custom Mode 1 had severe bleaching with 70 contrast and a default of 70 before I reset the monitor twice, then it defaulted back to 70 and was fine. 

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Decided to also stick with black stabilizer 9 for now:

https://imgur.com/N7cywPt
https://imgur.com/HPbpLze

Take advantage of the colorimeter and use dispcalgui or the X-Rite software to calibrate the monitor to 2.2 gamma since doing so will improve the monitor significantly versus the skewed gamma curve.  An sRGB curve will look washed out versus your current settings, and especially compared to the HP 24 Envy.

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 12:20:29 am »
Quote
Take advantage of the colorimeter and use dispcalgui or the X-Rite software to calibrate the monitor to 2.2 gamma since doing so will improve the monitor significantly versus the skewed gamma curve.  An sRGB curve will look washed out versus your current settings, and especially compared to the HP 24 Envy.

Will do, however what put me off from doing that (At least with X-Rite's software) was the horrible results it gave me when trying that, despite using the best settings that I could and leaving it there for a while to do its thing. Hopefully dispcalgui will do better (Though I was using the 2.6 gamma setting at the time, which probably didn't help, looking at the readings for the 2.6-2.8 gamma settings)

I did install dispcalgui, so I'll give that a go.

Quote
I encountered similar weird contrast issues as well.  The Custom Mode 1 had severe bleaching with 70 contrast and a default of 70 before I reset the monitor twice, then it defaulted back to 70 and was fine.

Many resets, still hasn't changed anything for me. Not a huge issue as it was fixed when lowering green to 96-97, and blue down to 95-96 (Though the issue weirdly isn't on the default "native" color tempurature, and is only on full color control)



Edit, here are my results (Medium calibration speed, will do slow when I actually have time to do that, not bad though for medium)

https://imgur.com/lymTHf7 (Color/grayscale accuracy)
https://imgur.com/1Wr4mrS (Contrast/whitepoint/luminance)
https://imgur.com/jQgGzP8 (Color coverage)
https://imgur.com/e0GVv0w (Gamma curve)

Though it seemed to have wanted to calibrate it to an sRGB gamma curve (Had it set to "Gamma 2.2", unless that this is the exact same as the sRGB setting?) I might be blind and missing an obvious setting, let me know if I am. Not a big issue, still looks a decent amount better, especially in the lighter shades, and generally a bit less flat.

I assume making the calibration speed slower would help the grayscale banding a slight bit? I know that there will be some either way, just wondering if it will help. It's not horrible at least, and I can live with the amount currently, though I feel that there could be a bit less. It also seemed to have added some slight color casts into the grayscale.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 03:18:42 am by MagicalChicken »

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 01:06:07 am »
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Let me know if I am.


Try these settings.  It takes around 90 minutes, but is the most consistent.  Since I started using dispcalgui in 2014 the accuracy reliability seems to get worse; often it takes 2-3 tries to achieve good results, even from monitors which are very accurate from menu adjustments.  I used to use basICColor 5, but it does not work with my Spectracal C6 (upgraded HDR capable i1 dp; calibration program I need for it is 400$ US) which I traded my 6 year old i1 display pro in for last fall to get it for half price.  Try the basICColor 14 day free trial.  It's faster and more reliable.  Use Color Sustainer to ensure games use ICC profiles.

HCFR Links are to the actual files since I haven't created screen shot compilations yet.

XG2402 dispcal & HCFR calibration verification

HP 24 Envy HCFR Verification

X-Star DP2710 Verification

Also, as expected, the XG2402 does suffer from contrast and gamma loss in the bottom quarter of the panel identical to that of the Acer XF240H I tested.  The Acer is significantly more accurate out of the box, the overdrive is more balanced, and it has a better perceived black depth increasing grey bezel.  Sad to see that the XF240H (@60hz) is also more accurate out of the box than the XB321HK I tested.

XG2402 144hz Default HCFR and XG2402 Improve: User Color + Text View Mode

Acer XF240H 144hz Default HCFR and XF240H Improve: Gamma 2.4 + User Color + Black Level 4

The 144hz gamma offered by the Acer is definitely worse, but it's more linear and can be easily improved.  Photos of the Acer and Viewsonic at 60hz and 144hz, 144hz with menu calibration, and 144hz with the ICC profile (XG2402 only).

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 01:10:52 am by NCX »

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 04:37:04 am »
I would be careful with the buttons on this thing, my right arrow snapped off  :( (I'm pretty careful with them too)

Yeah, I'll have to try the long settings soon. Should I trust the estimated 4-5 hours for the calibration and 7-8 hours for the test charts?  :P

Edit: Forgot to say, I did partially try your settings (Just with medium speed and 562 patches instead), yet I still didn't get linear 2.2 gamma (Unless I'm mistaken and that those settings weren't for linear 2.2?)



On another note, I'm curious as to why you chose the text view mode? I tried it, it appears to be visually identical to CUSTOM1 on my unit, and testing it in HCFR seems to confirm it, just ever so slightly worse delta E's on the text mode. Haven't tested standard yet, but by eye it seems the same too.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 02:28:17 pm by MagicalChicken »

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 04:01:51 pm »
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Should I trust the estimated 4-5 hours for the calibration and 7-8 hours for the test charts?  :P

No, it takes around 1.5 hours.

Quote from: MagicalChicken
I still didn't get linear 2.2 gamma (Unless I'm mistaken and that those settings weren't for linear 2.2?)

The settings are for linear 2.2, but there's no guarantee that it can be achieved.

Quote from: MagicalChicken
I'm curious as to why you chose the text view mode?

The Text View Mode provided slightly better preset results accuracy my unit.  Look at the files in HCFR and you'll see.

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 04:52:21 pm »
Quote
The settings are for linear 2.2, but there's no guarantee that it can be achieved.

That's strange then, because it really wanted to follow sRGB still for me.

Here's the curve:

https://imgur.com/OvruCxA

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 08:25:54 pm »
Quote from: MagicalChicken
That's strange then, because it really wanted to follow sRGB still for me.

If it were sRGB then 0-20% white would be under 2.12; 10% white is 2.00 and 20% is 2.118.  Change the Color Space Standard to sRGB in the HCFR Preferences+References menu, then put mouse on the white squares in the gamma chart to see what the exact values are. 

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 09:04:05 pm »
Ah, yeah, didn't look at it too closely. Though it seems to have still wanted to follow the general curve at least. I'll try it again later, maybe with slower settings too.

Edit: Here are my latest HCFR measurements on the "Standard" preset, which seems ever so slightly better than CUSTOM1 (Could possibly be down to measurement variations)

Standard:
https://imgur.com/VIJAEfi (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/m4Pe6wG (RGB)

CUSTOM1:
https://imgur.com/z2bqV6a (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/10hLDPc (RGB)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:20:24 pm by MagicalChicken »

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 03:10:26 pm »
That's odd, even your suggested Dispcal settings still didn't give good results, in fact probably slightly worse than my previous ones. Grays get a yellow tint (Slightly less so than my previous ones at least), 1 and 2 of the black level test are the same shade, 5 and 10 have a green tint, and 3-4 have a blue tint. Gamma was worse too.

For me, it also took around three and a half hours total.

Could there possibly be something wrong with the particular i1 Pro 2 that I have?

Here are images of the resulting gamma and RGB gray balance:

https://imgur.com/542aIgu

https://imgur.com/aXWHF9b

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 07:13:19 pm »
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Could there possibly be something wrong with the particular i1 Pro 2 that I have?

Slight vertical placement change of the colorimeter can change a TN panels results significantly, and I warned you about dispcalgui calibration not always working well; it could be a number of things which negatively affected the calibration which is why recommended trying the basICColor 14 day trial and using it to calibrate instead, then verifying with HCFR.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 07:15:07 pm by NCX »

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 03:07:32 am »
Gave basICColor a try, seems pretty good. Surprised at how much faster it was, while giving similar/better results (Though still added some slight color casts in the grayscale, is that just unavoidable? Not as much as Dispcalgui at least)

Here are my calibrated measurements:

HCFR grayscale/gamma: https://imgur.com/qMsILak

HCFR RGB levels: https://imgur.com/RSOYNmz (Didn't show the primaries and secondaries, as they didn't seem to change from the un-calibrated results in HCFR)

basICColor validation: https://imgur.com/h92XmOC

NCX

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 09:41:19 pm »
added some slight color casts in the grayscale, is that just unavoidable?

I didn't notice that there was a question in your last replay until now, and I've been sinking my free time into the Destiny 2 Solstice Of Heroes armor grind.

It's normal for cheap monitors to have a color dominance and a bit of banding when viewing gradients and white, both before and after calibration, especially if major corrections are made in both the menu and by the ICC profile.  Major corrections usually are not handled well by both 6 and 8 bit +FRC panels of any type, especially panels without a 12-16 bit 3D LUT, assuming it works properly. 

My colorimeter (Spectracal C6) does not work with basICColor, but I did calibrate monitors with both discapcal and basICColor a few years ago and found dispcal to be superior when it worked properly (rare), but only if a very long calibration option was used.

Dark grey had a minor blue tinge since 10% white of my XG2420 was 122% with the ICC profile active while red was 92.6%.  The XF240H 90% grey was 109% after calibration and a bit better overall, especially in regards to grey and white purity since it was far more accurate out of the box.



« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 09:45:24 pm by NCX »

MagicalChicken

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2018, 03:23:11 am »
Quote
I didn't notice that there was a question in your last replay until now, and I've been sinking my free time into the Destiny 2 Solstice Of Heroes armor grind.

Understandable, only just got back into it after a long break, seems like I missed a decent amount of stuff.

Quote
It's normal for cheap monitors to have a color dominance and a bit of banding when viewing gradients and white, both before and after calibration, especially if major corrections are made in both the menu and by the ICC profile.  Major corrections usually are not handled well by both 6 and 8 bit +FRC panels of any type, especially panels without a 12-16 bit 3D LUT, assuming it works properly.

Oddly enough, without any calibrations/ICC profiles, I have a perfect grayscale as far as I can see. No signs of banding or random color casts. Maybe I got lucky.



Unrelated, just saw this: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13260/dell-launches-gaming-24-and-gaming-27-displays (Just putting here on the off chance you haven't seen it yet)

I wonder how they'll mess these up, I'm guessing no gamma options again, as they seem to like doing that. Interesting nonetheless though, considering they're doing a 1080p 144hz. I wonder if they'll give the 1080p one the light matte coating of their S2417DG/S2716DG, though likely not.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 03:36:52 am by MagicalChicken »