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General Category => Post In Here: Ask NCX For Advice and General Discussion Thread => Topic started by: NCX on April 29, 2018, 07:38:03 pm

Title: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 29, 2018, 07:38:03 pm
Ask for advice or help in here, or send me a private message, but before doing so, make sure to read my buying guides thoroughly since they should be able to answer most questions.  Note that I will not infinitely reply if it is clear that those seeking advice clearly do not read my responses.  I post recommendations frequently on Reddit's r/Monitors. Check out my post history (https://www.reddit.com/user/ncx/comments/).

Please support my work via crypto currencies or Paypal (https://paypal.me/DrNCX?locale.x=en_US) (paypal email is thedeepinthesky@yahoo.com).  NCX's Amazon wish list (http://a.co/1WM6WdG)

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The site where I was allowed to host my content for free (2010-March 2018) shut down in March 2018, and I did not have up to date back ups of my work, but I was able to recover much of it from the last Way Back Machine save from December 2017.  I am in the process of restoring and updating my Best Reviewed Flicker Free Buying Guides which are all 8 months out of date. 

If possible, always purchase from retailers with hassle free return and exchange policies.  Read retailers return and exchange policies before buying.


Best Reviewed Flicker Free Monitor Buying Guides (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/):

Make sure to browse my Best Monitors Section for Information and Review Links for the best reviewed LED PWM Dimming or Flicker Free monitors of which I cover the following:


21.5-23" 1080p IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-21-5-23'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/) (links need fixing)
24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/)
24" 1920x1200p IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24'-1200p-ipspls-monitors/)
25" 2560x1440 AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-25'-2560x1440p-monitors-ahvaipspls/)
27" 2560x1440 AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440p-monitors-ahvaipspls/) (new version; in progress)
27" 3840x2160 AHVA/IPS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/) (almost finished)
32" 3840x2160 AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-32'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/)
144hz (available at an unknown time in the future)
240hz (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-240hz-monitors/) (1080p TN)

Recommendations are PWM or Flicker Free:

I do not recommend monitors which use low LED PWM Dimming frequencies since they ruin motion clarity (http://flic.kr/p/qSbVjo) and cause some people to suffer from health issues like head aches and eyestrain.  LED PWM Dimming Side Effects (http://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/pulse_width_modulation.htm#side_effects).

Only semi-glossy (light matte), glossy and Plasma Deposition coating plus LED PWM Dimming (Side Effects (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm#side_effects)) Free/Super High Frequency using 2560x1440 monitors without really obvious overshoot ghosting, tons of quality control issues and good color presets will make my list. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MichaelDeets on July 01, 2018, 06:19:04 pm
Hello NCX,

I truly respect that amount of free support and help you've given the monitor community over the years. I'm a complete amateur, and your guides and information are extremely useful to me.

I've never really looked into monitors before, and looking back I've made some questionable decisions. While I have a 'gaming monitor' (let's not talk about it), I am also looking for a 27" 1440p 'productivity monitor' with a decent sRGB coverage, good contrasts, etc. (excuse my ignorance).

The main programs I will be using are: Notepad++  (for coding/scripting), Photoshop, After Effects, Premier Pro and a little bit of C4D. I will also use the monitor for watching videos and other general desktop tasks.

I have a budget below ~$500 (USD) or around 350 (GBP), and so far the S2718D has been at the top of my list. I can get the monitor for about 330 (wasn't including VAT, my mistake it's actually 400); before I buy the monitor, do you have any other recommendations or suggestions?

Thanks for the help!



Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 02, 2018, 07:30:16 am
I truly respect that amount of free support and help you've given the monitor community over the years. I'm a complete amateur, and your guides and information are extremely useful to me.

Thanks! 
 
before I buy the monitor, do you have any other recommendations or suggestions?

I would not recommend the S2718H to someone who is not a big glossy-type coating fan, and does not have a decent bias lighting set-up (it is reflective and looks washed out when light shines on the display), plus more accurate matte options are available in the same price range like the AOC Q2790PQU and iiyama XUB2792QSU-B1 (best; supports 70hz which makes it a good gaming and 'image quality' monitor) which is only available in Europe.  Most of the 27" 1440p Monitor review links have not been restored yet

https://be.hardware.info/product/374615/iiyama-prolite-xub2792qsu-b1/testresultaten

https://be.hardware.info/product/416278/aoc-q2790pqu/testresultaten
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: orikl on July 16, 2018, 01:41:45 am
Hello NCX.

I am looking for a gaming monitor (of course..) currently for my ps4, but I considering buying one that will suit me for the next gen.

The problem with that is with g-sync and freesync... I can't know what will be on the next gen... what are your thoughts on that?

Anyway, what are your recommendations for a 1080p and 4k gaming monitors with a reasonable budget 400$-450$ max

The most important things to me are image quality and low input lag. the rest is bonus for me.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 16, 2018, 04:40:00 pm
Hello NCX.

I am looking for a gaming monitor (of course..) currently for my ps4, but I considering buying one that will suit me for the next gen.

The problem with that is with g-sync and freesync... I can't know what will be on the next gen... what are your thoughts on that?

Anyway, what are your recommendations for a 1080p and 4k gaming monitors with a reasonable budget 400$-450$ max

The most important things to me are image quality and low input lag. the rest is bonus for me.

Both Microsoft and Sony use AMD graphics cards in their consoles, and Free-Sync is much cheaper to implement, so I doubt we'll see a console with G-Sync in the future unless Sony switches to Nvidia with the PS5, but I doubt they will.  Sync tech support is also pretty limited since most games run at 30pfs, plus most Free-Sync monitors only support 40-60 or 75hz Free-Sync ranges.  Games which run in the 50-60fps range like Call of Duty will benefit, as well games with unlocked frame rates such as Monster Hunter and Shadow of the Colossus, but I doubt Sony will add Free-Sync support to the PS4 Pro.

If the 400-450$ is in US dollars get the Dell P2715Q 4K IPS panel (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27%27-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/?message=40)).  It can be considered delay free, is more accurate than the competing LG monitors, has a height adjustable stand, 4x USB 3.0 and often sells for less than 400$.  The next step up image quality wise is the Viewsonic XG2700-4K which has nearly perfect preset color accuracy and Free-Sync, but it sells for over 500$.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MichaelDeets on July 23, 2018, 07:13:10 am
Hello NCX,

Thanks for the suggestions, I ended up with the Iiyama and I've been really enjoying it!

I also returned my BenQ XL2540 as it had a horrible blueish glow from the bottom, making everything around it distorted (let alone the awful colour presets) - and to think I originally paid over $550 for this monitor, although I really rushed into buying it back in early 2017.

I play a lot of CS:GO (at high FPS, no lower than 300), so I've mainly been looking at 240Hz/1080p monitors.
That could change, and my computer is only really capable at pushing CS past 240 FPS but G-sync would help with having <240 FPS on other games/
Also have you heard about the (unreleased) MSI NXG251? Someone on Reddit claimed it will have one of the 'next generation' of 240 Hz panels, not sure if it's worth the 3-6 month wait...

Last thing, my old PayPal was locked around 4-5 years ago (due to me being underage at the time) and I can't get it unlocked so I made a new one.

I went to donate, but it keeps saying my 'session has expired' (I've tried a different browser, incognito, different system with a different IP, etc.).

Thanks again!

EDIT:

I ended up getting the Samsung (based on your recommendations in the /r/monitors subreddit). I bearly notice the 240-144 Hz transition and the colours (at least to me) seem pretty good!

I would still like to donate if you have a suitable email / donate link.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 26, 2018, 05:38:13 pm
Hello NCX,

Thanks for the suggestions, I ended up with the Iiyama and I've been really enjoying it!

I also returned my BenQ XL2540 as it had a horrible blueish glow from the bottom, making everything around it distorted (let alone the awful colour presets) - and to think I originally paid over $550 for this monitor, although I really rushed into buying it back in early 2017.

I play a lot of CS:GO (at high FPS, no lower than 300), so I've mainly been looking at 240Hz/1080p monitors.
That could change, and my computer is only really capable at pushing CS past 240 FPS but G-sync would help with having <240 FPS on other games/
  • The AOC AG251FG is just within my price range (goes for about 425/$560 here, after tax, shipping, etc.) and looks like a good choice according to the guide.

  • The Alienware AW2518HF is quite a bit cheaper (going for around 300/$400) but obviously doesn't have g-sync.

  • The Samsung C24FG73 is significantly cheaper (goes for about 200/$260). While it doesn't have g-sync and is 144 Hz, the colours (from being VA) and price difference does interest me.

  • There's also the XG2401 which is also significantly cheaper (goes for about 180/$240) - again, it doesn't have g-sync and is only 144 Hz.

Also have you heard about the (unreleased) MSI NXG251? Someone on Reddit claimed it will have one of the 'next generation' of 240 Hz panels, not sure if it's worth the 3-6 month wait...

Last thing, my old PayPal was locked around 4-5 years ago (due to me being underage at the time) and I can't get it unlocked so I made a new one.

I went to donate, but it keeps saying my 'session has expired' (I've tried a different browser, incognito, different system with a different IP, etc.).

Thanks again!

EDIT:

I ended up getting the Samsung (based on your recommendations in the /r/monitors subreddit). I bearly notice the 240-144 Hz transition and the colours (at least to me) seem pretty good!

I would still like to donate if you have a suitable email / donate link.


I was going to suggest the Samsung C24FG73 (better image quality but more overshoot) or Viewsonic XG2401 since the 240hz TN panels all have bad image quality, even if accurate since they have small color gamuts only capable of covering up to 89-93% (Absolute, not native coverage) of the SRGB & REC 709 color space.  The AOC AG251G seems like it's the best of the 240hz panels, but it's still worse than the best 144hz TN panels, only one has been tested (by PC Monitors), and the 240hz AUO panels contrast and preset accuracy varies significantly between the same units.

My paypal email is thedeepinthesky@yahoo.com

What's the build date on your Samsung (check the back sticker)?  Some people still report getting units made in 2017 without the new firmware and obvious green and purple overshoot ghosting.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MichaelDeets on July 26, 2018, 06:17:35 pm
I was going to suggest the Samsung C24FG73 (better image quality but more overshoot) or Viewsonic XG2401 since the 240hz TN panels all have bad image quality, even if accurate since they have small color gamuts only capable of covering up to 89-93% (Absolute, not native coverage) of the SRGB & REC 709 color space.  The AOC AG251G seems like it's the best of the 240hz panels, but it's still worse than the best 144hz TN panels, only one has been tested (by PC Monitors), and the 240hz AUO panels contrast and preset accuracy varies significantly between the same units.

My paypal email is thedeepinthesky@yahoo.com

What's the build date on your Samsung (check the back sticker)?  Some people still report getting units made in 2017 without the new firmware and obvious green and purple overshoot ghosting.

April 2018. I just noticed a slight purple artefact when I was browsing Reddit (night mode), it was extremely subtle and I haven't seen it anywhere else.

I went to this exact place (shown in this YouTube video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoqGHAK-U3U

and I couldn't notice anything whatsoever.

There's a very slight green tint on the left half of the screen and a slight red tint on the right half, I might end up returning it and exchanging it for a new one.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Bunsen on July 29, 2018, 06:48:26 pm
Hello NCX,

I am looking at a few monitors right now for a new setup at college with a new laptop. My current primary monitors at home are BenQ RL2455 1080p TN panels. As I do not game professionally, really, and will be staring at the monitor for years, I want the new monitor to be IPS. I was linked to this forum by someone on Reddit and have spent the past few days looking at manufacturers and different monitors for sale. I really want to buy something nice that will last a while, as my current BenQ monitors were supposed to be good (from my limited research at the time) but really haven't been, as the settings and colors change often enough randomly, forcing me to go into the OSD and toggle the correct preset back on. (An entry-level Dell 1366x768 secondary monitor that was gifted to me has an objectively worse TN panel but has remained trouble-free over the years.)

My goal is to get one matte 23.8" to 25" IPS monitor with as good color quality as possible while spending around $200 (USD). The budget can be slightly upgraded if necessary, and the monitor can be used or refurbished if necessary also. The monitor should be 1080p, mainly for the sake of future expansion with a fast TN 1080p panel if I want to play games at a higher refresh rate without spending a fortune.

In my research, Dell (#1) and Asus (#2) seem to have the best service, warranties, and pixel policies (on certain models) that I have found. I'd rather stick with them when possible unless some other monitor is just too good to ignore. See my note about BenQ above.

Here are the monitors that I am looking at, loosely ranked:
#1. Dell UltraSharp U2417H. Dell seems to have the best warranty, service, and pixel policy overall. Additionally, the stand and image quality (reported in your 24"-25" post) seem to be great and on par with the Eizo and iiyama, which are either super expensive or not available here (USA). The UltraSharp just seems like a premium product overall when compared to the monitors below.
#1a. (This has been edited in after the initial post.) You mentioned in a Reddit comment that the iiyama XUB2492HSU-B1 is a superior U2417H clone (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/821qbm/monitor_for_coding_dell_p2717h_vs_u2417h/dv6uw5c). I searched through more of your comment history after that just to try to get some more insight on my situation, but can you please explain why this monitor is better than the Dell UltraSharp? I found a price on Amazon.de that is cheaper than the Dell even with international shipping factored in.
#2. Asus VP249H. This one is black and has flicker-free and a VESA mount. I don't think it's as good as the UltraSharp, though.
#3. Asus VZ249H. This is silver (which I don't like as much) and has flicker-free but no VESA mount. I'm not sure how this differs from the VP249H.
#4. Asus MX259H. This one is tempting due to its 25" size which you've claimed makes for a good panel. Additionally, the 25" size is "better" for this type of bezel-less panel in my opinion as it makes the screen itself appear smaller. (That's just from my observations between my home BenQ monitors and a bezel-less ViewSonic at work.) This seems comparable to the Acer G257HL (which you mentioned as being cheaper than the Asus, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore, so I'd rather the Asus) and the Philips 257E7QDSB (which seems good, but I'm hesitant about since Philips don't seem to sell that many monitors here at all).
#5. Asus VN248H/VN248Q. (I think these are the same except for the ports on them.) Apparently these are not flicker-free and should be eliminated. Can you confirm?

The AOC, Eizo, iiyama, 246-model Philips, and LG mentioned in your "best matte monitor" section don't seem to be available here in the US.

I can pick up the Dell UltraSharp new at $230 and possibly "used" (open box) at $200. The VP249H, however, is $135; the VZ249H is $155; and the MX259H is $175. Discounting the VN248-series Asus, are there any compelling reasons to spend more money on the Dell? Is it truly better than the other Asus choices in terms of build and/or color accuracy? My main goal is to have this monitor "forever" basically until it dies, so I'd like to get one of the best monitors out there with my desired specifications even if it costs more.

Lastly, I think I've checked all of the ones you've said are best in the 24"-25" post, but if there are any other better options available in the US that I am missing, please let me know.

Thank you for all the reviews and comments you've done both on here and on Reddit!

Bunsen
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 30, 2018, 11:34:29 pm
Quote from: MichaelDeets
1.) I couldn't notice anything whatsoever.

2.) There's a very slight green tint on the left half of the screen and a slight red tint on the right half, I might end up returning it and exchanging it for a new one.

(1) I'm glad you like it, especially after switching from a 240hz panel.   (2) Perhaps buy a second unit and return whichever is worse  since there's always the possibility of getting a worse replacement. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 31, 2018, 12:31:10 am
Quote from: Bunsen
You mentioned in a Reddit comment that the iiyama XUB2492HSU-B1 is a superior U2417H clone (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/821qbm/monitor_for_coding_dell_p2717h_vs_u2417h/dv6uw5c). I searched through more of your comment history after that just to try to get some more insight on my situation, but can you please explain why this monitor is better than the Dell UltraSharp?

The iiyama is basically the same monitor which sells for less, and is equipped with multiple useful overdrive settings while the Dell only has 1 useful setting which suffers from a bit overshoot.  I won't recommend it though since imports can't be easily returned and exchanged, the warranty might not be honored, and because return shipping is expensive.   

Quote from: Bunsen
#4. Asus MX259H

I see no point in paying 25$ more for the Asus of the Philips unless you really like the design of the Asus. 

Quote from: Bunsen
#5. Asus VN248H/VN248Q. (I think these are the same except for the ports on them.) Apparently these are not flicker-free and should be eliminated. Can you confirm?

No.  The only information is for the original panel with PWM tested back in 2013, and there are multiple tested options to choose from.

Quote from: Bunsen
I can pick up the Dell UltraSharp new at $230 and possibly "used" (open box) at $200. The VP249H, however, is $135; the VZ249H is $155; and the MX259H is $175. Discounting the VN248-series Asus, are there any compelling reasons to spend more money on the Dell? Is it truly better than the other Asus choices in terms of build and/or color accuracy? My main goal is to have this monitor "forever" basically until it dies, so I'd like to get one of the best monitors out there with my desired specifications even if it costs more.

Buying a refurbished monitor with a 90 day warranty is not a good idea if longevity is a concern, and the U2417H costs more than the rest because it comes with a height adjustable stand (50$+ expense), USB ports and their superior warranty versus all competitors in the low-end monitor arena.  Theoretically (if it's as good as the cheaper Philips 257E7QDSB) the MX259H offers slightly better image quality than the 24" 1080p panels since the 25" panels are 8 bit and can more fully cover the sRGB color space.  I don't think the height adjustable stand the Dell comes with is tall enough to be useful since the top of AHVA/IPS/PLS needs to line up with the top of the viewers head to eliminate off angle vertical glow (more information (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/msg63/#msg63)).
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on July 31, 2018, 02:35:19 am
Hello! It's me again (The one that reported the vertical lines on the HP)

Was wondering what settings you'd recommend for HCFR? I think I've got it mostly set up, but just wanted some extra advice and to know how you set it up if you don't mind. Got my hands on an i1 Pro 2 for a bit (For free obviously, ain't paying over $1000 :P )

I also got a ViewSonic XG2402 (2401 isn't available anywhere at the time, and doesn't seem like it's going to change), and have been measuring that.

I would like to add to the confirmed 1000:1 contrast readings, I think it may be safe to recommend it, assuming this is mostly accurate.

Grayscale/gamma:

https://imgur.com/OfhTmKx

RGB levels:

https://imgur.com/WT5CDbh


How does all this look? Here's my HP Envy 24 for comparison:

Grayscale/gamma:

https://imgur.com/nckxddV

RGB levels:

https://imgur.com/Jwoqwxi

I know that this isn't all that much of a question/help post, but I didn't know where else to put this, would love a general discussion section! (Or maybe I'm blind and there is one, who knows)

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MichaelDeets on July 31, 2018, 10:06:09 am
Quote from: MichaelDeets
1.) I couldn't notice anything whatsoever.

2.) There's a very slight green tint on the left half of the screen and a slight red tint on the right half, I might end up returning it and exchanging it for a new one.

(1) I'm glad you like it, especially after switching from a 240hz panel.   (2) Perhaps buy a second unit and return whichever is worse  since there's always the possibility of getting a worse replacement.

Good idea, but I'm just going to get a refund. They don't stock the models in store (click and collect only), and returning them is harder than I thought (10 mile drive to the nearest store, as the local store shut down).

The colours were amazing, but I don't really need them and I had some issues with crosshairs especially on low resolutions (1024x768) but even on native (as silly as that 'issue' sounds). In reality I only play CS:GO, Civ 5 and maybe the odd MMO (two of which I can play on my Iiyama just fine). I went ahead with buying the XG2401 (out-of-stock, probably wont dispatch for a week or more) as I heard that LG's strobing isn't that good anyway (not to mention it being about $50 more), and I can always go back to the C24FG73 as I found another store which stocks it (much closer). Wish me luck back into TN hell, although anything's an upgrade over my XL2540.

Cheers for all the help and advice. I would have either kept my XL2540 (which I hated) or ended up with something much worse otherwise.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 31, 2018, 11:49:36 pm
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Hello! It's me again (The one that reported the vertical lines on the HP)

I remember, credited and showed your post from 2017 in my HP 24 Envy video review (https://youtu.be/CYaZ-i8d23s?t=2m3s).

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Was wondering what settings you'd recommend for HCFR?

The version (3.5.1.4) you have is set up correctly by default.

Quote from: MagicalChicken
I would like to add to the confirmed 1000:1 contrast readings, I think it may be safe to recommend it, assuming this is mostly accurate.


Grayscale/gamma:

https://imgur.com/OfhTmKx

RGB levels:

https://imgur.com/WT5CDbh


How does all this look?

Excellent aside from the gamma which is too low (turn the Black Stabilization setting down and re-measure), even for an sRB type curve.  Your unit is much better than mine which is far more blue and has a significantly skewed gamma curve (I'll add screen shots later).

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Here's my HP Envy 24 for comparison:

Grayscale/gamma:

https://imgur.com/nckxddV

RGB levels:

https://imgur.com/Jwoqwxi

Your Envy is also better than mine, though only slightly, and it could be colorimeter differences instead of panel accuracy lottery.  The gamma should ideally be linear 2.2 from 0-100% white

24 Envy RGB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/34631708003/) and 24 Envy Gamma

Quote from: MagicalChicken
I know that this isn't all that much of a question/help post, but I didn't know where else to put this, would love a general discussion section! (Or maybe I'm blind and there is one, who knows)

Good idea.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on August 01, 2018, 12:59:57 am

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Was wondering what settings you'd recommend for HCFR?

The version (3.5.1.4) you have is set up correctly by default.


Yeah, I thought so too at first, but then I noticed it was using 16-235 for the test images by default, I'm pretty sure that was wrong, and was giving me incorrect contrast readings too, so I had to switch that. Also, the default "color space/standard:" setting in "references" was I believe at HDTV REC709, but that wasn't giving that gray reference curve. Changed that to sRGB for the reference curve, should I be using the default there instead?

Quote
Excellent aside from the gamma which is too low (turn the Black Stabilization setting down and re-measure), even for an sRB type curve.

Currently I'm at the 2.2 gamma setting, I'm assuming raising that would be too much? Will try turning the black stabilizer down a bit.

Knocked it down to 9, how's this? https://imgur.com/657zUEz

Here's one of my earlier readings at 10 that I forgot to show: https://imgur.com/ufdJz9Q

My latest reading at 10 (Also lowered brightness by 1): https://imgur.com/85lTeDc

Contrast readings seem to vary a bit (Getting a lot of 800-900:1 readings, but then sometimes 1100:1, despite not changing anything) I know that the i1 Pro 2 may not be the best at this, just seems odd that the readings vary sometimes, even for the same OSD settings. Would it be fine to just trust the ones around 1000-1100:1? (I got a couple of 700:1 readings at one point for some reason, but those seemed to have stopped for now)

Edit: Which is the better of these? Black stabilizer seems to hurt certain colors, but makes others better.

Black Stabilizer 11:
https://imgur.com/N7cywPt (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/MOPYvj5 (RGB Levels)

Black Stabilizer 10:
https://imgur.com/RJkrcN3 (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/qGC3rzS (RGB Levels)

Black Stabilizer 9:
https://imgur.com/N7cywPt (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/HPbpLze (RGB Levels)

Black Stabilizer 8:
https://imgur.com/uSklDsD (Grayscale)
https://imgur.com/QYnWfyC (RGB Levels)

Wish I knew why the contrast readings vary (Sometimes the gamma too, but less often), not really sure what to trust. I guess I'll just have to assume it's around 1000:1. Was odd that yesterday I was getting a bunch of 1000-1200:1 readings, but not today, despite the same lighting conditions too (In the dark)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 02, 2018, 08:50:07 pm
Quote from: MagicalChicken

Yeah, I thought so too at first, but then I noticed it was using 16-235 for the test images by default, I'm pretty sure that was wrong, and was giving me incorrect contrast readings too, so I had to switch that.

I installed the new version after your first post and must and have been on auto pilot since I didn't notice that I switched it to 0-255.

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Also, the default "color space/standard:" setting in "references" was I believe at HDTV REC709, but that wasn't giving that gray reference curve. Changed that to sRGB for the reference curve, should I be using the default there instead?

HDTV REC 709 and sRGB are extremely similar to the point that it doesn't really matter if not doing anything which requires precise accuracy.  The main difference is the gamma which is linear 2.2 for REC 709 while sRGB has a curve with lower gamma for 0-30% white. 

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Would it be fine to just trust the ones around 1000-1100:1? (I got a couple of 700:1 readings at one point for some reason, but those seemed to have stopped for now)

Slight bumps can move the meter and cause contrast differences, and I've found that if I try to multi-task on a second monitor the HCFR readings can get screwed up, so it's best to just leave it to measure. 

Quote from: MagicalChicken
Which is the better of these? Black stabilizer seems to hurt certain colors, but makes others better.

Set the reference gamma to sRGB and see which BS setting gets the closest, or use dispcalgui or X-Rite's calibration software and calibrate to linear 2.2 or sRGB gamma.  AUO panels tend be aim for sRGB, so I'd change the HCFR settings to get the gamma curve closest to an sRGB curve if only wanting to use the menu settings to calibrate.  I try to achieve the best results with the menu settings first since I connect my monitors to consoles, and because more banding and contrast loss occurs when calibration programs have to perform more corrections.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: AdamFOO on August 03, 2018, 07:23:32 am
Hi NCX,
I appreciate everything you do, I've used your guides multiple times to suggest people what monitors to buy.
What do you think about new AOC's C24G1? Seems to use the same VA panel as the MSI Optix, but it's reviewed fairly well and has good opinions. On top of that it costs ~15-20% that any other VA 1080p 144hz monitor in my country. I'm still deciding whenever I want a VA or TN panel. I've never used an IPS, so I'd be fine with bad colors, as long as it's not worse than my current Samsung SyncMaster 913v.
Here are the only reviews I could find, unfortunately not in English:
http://diy.pconline.com.cn/1124/11242024.html
http://www.xyscyihaodian.com/rw/2018/0726/148407.html
Thanks again for your work.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: TAEHSAEN on August 03, 2018, 04:47:44 pm
Dear NCX, I am a huge fan of the work and knowledge you share with everyone and I am very grateful to be here. If you could give me a little advice on this, I would be truly grateful.

I play PUBG with my friends but I am really bad at it. My friend suggested that I upgrade to a better monitor.

So I am looking for a 24-25", 1080p, 144Hz, TN panel.

My current set up is a 27" BenQ GL2760-B, 60Hz, VA panel.

The reason I want to switch is because I think my game will improve with a higher framerate and response time. I also prefer smaller 25" monitor personally because it allows me to focus more. I don't believe I should try to upgrade more than 1080P / 144Hz because my GTX 970 cannot push more than 120 FPS on my current monitor so I don't think I will benefit from a much higher spec monitor. I am curious whether I should consider G-Sync as well. My budget is ideally below $400 but I am happy to increase more if it is truly worth doing so.

Any advice you can provide will be extremely valuable to me. Thank you for all that you do :)

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 06, 2018, 11:47:15 pm
Thanks to both for the appreciative comments.

Quote from: AdamFOO
What do you think about new AOC's C24G1? Seems to use the same VA panel as the MSI Optix, but it's reviewed fairly well and has good opinions.

I'm aware of diy PC online and don't use them as source since they use an inaccurate Spyder colorimeter and don't provide enough important information to base a decision on, and neither does the second site which has even less information and uses a Spyder.  Based on the information provided by PC Online the AOC has accurate gamma which indicates that it won't look washed out, which is something to be skeptical of since even AOC's flag ship G-Sync monitors have low preset gamma resulting in washed out image quality.  Expect it to look washed out and in need of its gamma setting to be increased.  Familiarize yourself with the Lagom Black Level page (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.phpl); if the gamma is to low the squares in the top row will be easily distinguishable while square 1-4 will mostly blend if the gamma is 2.2 or higher.

Quote from: TAEHSAEN
The reason I want to switch is because I think my game will improve with a higher framerate and response time.

The frame rate will be the same on a high hz 1080p monitor if V-Sync is turned off, and upgrading from a lag-less 60hz VA panel to a high hz TN panel won't make you a better player.   Less screen tearing, ghosting (VA color smearing and streaking), and motion blur are benefits, and gaming will feel both faster and smoother, but it skill is skill.  If you were upgrading from a display with very high input lag (TV with the game/PC mode turned off) then expect significant improvement. 

Quote from: TAEHSAEN
I also prefer smaller 25" monitor...My budget is ideally below $400 but I am happy to increase more if it is truly worth doing so.

If that's 400$ US then I'll suggest the

Acer XB241H (144hz TN with G-Sync and ULMB/back-light strobing)
AOC G2590PX (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/7xoi11/aoc_g2590px_review_by_pc_monitors_matte_1080p/) (new 144hz AUO TN panel with accurate color)
Samsung C24FG73 (144hz VA panel with back-light strobing; my top pick)
Viewsonic XG2402 (144hz TN panel)

G-Sync will extend the usefulness of the 970 since it gets rid of screen tearing and makes lower frame rates feel better.  Blur Busters G-Sync Input Lag Testing & Optimal Lag Reducing Game Settings (https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14/).
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: TAEHSAEN on August 07, 2018, 01:33:17 am
Dear NCX, thank you so much for your help on this. The Acer XB241H looks amazing and I'm especially looking forward to using G-Sync. I really fell hard for the Samsung C24FG73 but at the end the option to be able to try G-Sync for the first time made me want to get the XB241H. Thank you so much again NCX I appreciate your advice on this :)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on August 09, 2018, 02:52:10 pm
Might as well put this here, as it fits better. I'm assuming my XG2402 unit is worth keeping? Only reason I ask is that I'm still in the return window, so just want to be absolutely, 100% sure. The Acer seems good, but is it better enough to consider over my particular XG2402? I definitely know that there is no guarantee that I'd get an Acer like yours, so I'm not even sure if the lottery is worth it. (Edit: The Acer doesn't actually seem to be in stock anywhere here either way) (And I'm going to assume that the XFA240 is a different monitor)

Hey, might as well get out all of my uncertainties before the return window closes (That button snapping made me even more uncertain, though not a dealbreaker, just annoying)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 09, 2018, 04:25:47 pm
I'm assuming my XG2402 unit is worth keeping?

It's your decision, one which is not a big deal if it's easy to exchange and return monitors where you live, and if you have the time to do so.  I dislike both monitors and would rather read a book than use either for gaming or watching content since matte TN panels hurt my soul :)  I'm surprised that you can stand using the XG2402 after using a good IPS panel like the 24 Envy for a year.

The Acer XF240H is definitely significantly better than our very similar XG2402's, and did not have any weird menu/operation and reset issues like the XG2402, but most of its advantages are preset color accuracy and ease of use based.  The Acer only needed to have its gamma settings changed to achieve good image quality for a TN while the XG2402 needs and ICC profile since the gamma and RGB levels are so skewed.

It is the XF240H; look at the top right:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/928/43197738644_376a9ed3e2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28PeGHj)
Acer XF240H (https://flic.kr/p/28PeGHj) by Deepinthesky Teslastorm (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/), on Flickr



Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on August 09, 2018, 04:48:49 pm
Quote
I'm surprised that you can stand using the XG2402 after using a good IPS panel like the 24 Envy for a year.

Probably helps that I used a matte 60hz TN for long before that, so I guess I'm just used to the usual TN issues :P

Quote
It is the XF240H; look at the top right:

Yeah, was actually asking if the XFA240 is the same thing, as they look similar (And that one is actually in stock most places)

I think I saw a few XF240H's on Ebay, but I'm thinking that might be more of a hassle to return things, even if the listings allow returns.


Edit: From what I've seen, the XFA240 seems to be a new version of the XF240H. The fact that the XF240H's were near completely phased out here in favor of that seems to confirm it a bit. Wish there was more info on it (Though since I have an i1 Pro 2, it wouldn't be as much of a risk if I end up trying that)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 09, 2018, 11:44:39 pm
Quote from: MagicalChicken
Yeah, was actually asking if the XFA240 is the same thing, as they look similar (And that one is actually in stock most places)

Ah, ok.  I doubt the XFA240 is much different, but suggest trying a Samsung C24FG73 or one of the 144hz 1440p AHVA panels (Pixio & Nixeus in the US) instead if you're going to return the XG2402.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: trevinshu on August 14, 2018, 11:02:54 pm
Hey NCX I am from Reddit and I am wondering what your thoughts are on the HP VH240a. It's extremely popular on amazon.com and I just wanted to check and see what your thoughts are on it. I am looking for a 1080p 24 inch IPS monitor that has a matte screen & small bezels. Freesync & G-Sync aren't important. My budget is $200 Canadian.

https://www.amazon.com/HP-23-8-inch-Adjustment-Speakers-VH240a/dp/B072M34RQC
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 15, 2018, 01:28:05 am
Hey NCX I am from Reddit and I am wondering what your thoughts are on the HP VH240a. It's extremely popular on amazon.com and I just wanted to check and see what your thoughts are on it. I am looking for a 1080p 24 inch IPS monitor that has a matte screen & small bezels. Freesync & G-Sync aren't important. My budget is $200 Canadian.

https://www.amazon.com/HP-23-8-inch-Adjustment-Speakers-VH240a/dp/B072M34RQC

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25%27-1080p-ipspls-monitors/msg3/#msg3)

It's not mentioned here ^ since I don't have any information. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: BDash on September 30, 2018, 11:26:45 pm
I'm looking to replace my AOC G2460GP that I've been using for over 2 years, or possibly keep it around as a second display. I'm interested in non-curved, HDMI-support, G-Sync, >60hz and between 1080p and 1440p. What are some good options?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 01, 2018, 07:15:41 am
I'm looking to replace my AOC G2460GP that I've been using for over 2 years, or possibly keep it around as a second display. I'm interested in non-curved, HDMI-support, G-Sync, >60hz and between 1080p and 1440p. What are some good options?

Budget? There's a G2460PG with G-Sync, and the only monitors which aren't side grades are 500$+ US curved 1080p VA panels with G-Sync, one of the four 144-165hz 2560x1440 AHVA (marketed as IPS panels), of which the AOC AG271QG (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg342/#msg342l) is the best (top choice), or the flat LG 32GK850G with G-Sync which uses a matte 144hz 1440p VA panel.  None of the G-Sync monitors under 2,000$ support more than 60hz or 1080p over HDMI.  There are 1440p TN panels with G-Sync, but they don't have better image quality, use grainy matte coatings, or suffer from obvious banding and have poor image quality (Dell). 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: BDash on October 01, 2018, 11:47:08 am
Quote
Budget?
My bad, my budget is around 500 max, though i'd love to have it around 3-400 if possible.
Quote
None of the G-Sync monitors under 2,000$ support more than 60hz or 1080p over HDMI.
The AOC AG271QG is very tempting but it's outside my budget, especially considering how i'd like to upgrade my GPU (Stuck with a GTX 970, only one DP port and not beefy enough for 1440p). The LG even more so.
Quote
of which the AOC AG271QG ([ur=http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg342/#msg342l]review links[/url] is the best (top choice), or the flat LG 32GK850G
When I said "HDMI support", I meant for stuff like consoles and other devices.
Quote
There's a G2460PG with G-Sync
?? That's what i'm trying to replace unless you meant a different model.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 01, 2018, 08:08:09 pm
?? That's what i'm trying to replace.

Yes I know.  There's nothing to upgrade from with G-Sync under 500$, and it's easy to downgrade (Dell S series).  You could buy an X-Rite Colormunki (150$) to calibrate and improve the G2460PG (use the free Color Sustainer (https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/application-color-sustainer-icc-profile-enforcer.386325/) to ensure games use ICC profiles), a 24-25 or 27" IPS 60-75hz 1080p IPS panel (no need to spend more than 200$ in the US; the Philips 257E7QDSB is on of the best and sells for under 165$ in the US from Amazon), and a quality light to use as a bias light (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B071SCBKD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) (20$) if there are no other light sources in the room.

The problem with dual monitor set ups with IPS and TN is that AHVA/IPS/PLS must be viewed differently (top of the panel should line up with the top of the viewers head or be a bit higher) to not see glow while TN panels must be looked down at to not look awful.

AHVA/IPS/PLS Proper View
Spoiler (hover to show)

TN Proper View
Spoiler (hover to show)

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25%27-1080p-ipspls-monitors/msg3/#msg3)

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/)

If you drop the G-Sync requirement then you could buy a 27" 144hz 1440p AHVA (marketed as IPS) panel with Free-Sync like the Acer XF270HUA (good),  Nixeus Edge 27 or Pixio PX277 (untested but likely fine), but the GTX 970 limitations make upgrading pretty much pointless. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: BDash on October 02, 2018, 09:21:19 am
Yeah, G-Sync is a no.1 priority in addition to HDMI input. Also my screen has had a scratch around the center for like a year and i'm not sure if I can even replace the panel for a new one. Looks like the Acer XB241H will be my best bet so far...
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 02, 2018, 07:19:17 pm
Yeah, G-Sync is a no.1 priority in addition to HDMI input. Also my screen has had a scratch around the center for like a year and i'm not sure if I can even replace the panel for a new one. Looks like the Acer XB241H will be my best bet so far...

Might as well try out the AOC warranty before spending another 350-400$ on what is basically the same monitor in a different case.  It's also possible to order panels (M240HW01 V8 according to PC Monitors (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-g2460pg/#Specifications)) from Ali Express (https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20181002160844&SearchText=M240HW01+V8), eBay (https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=M240HW01+V8&_sacat=0),  or from China via Tao Bao (https://s.taobao.com/search?q=M240HW01+V8&type=p&tmhkh5=&spm=a21wu.241046-ca.a2227oh.d100&from=sea_1_searchbutton&catId=100).  There are a few sites like Alibaba (https://www.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.7724857.scGlobalHomeHeader.6.34731b48qYKEQ5) which one can use to order from Tao Bao instead of relying on a translator to use the site.  I've ordered 6+ items from Tao Bao both directly and with third party sites.

My cat put a scratch in the center (only visible when viewing white and light colors) of one of my monitors which I used for more than year until I found a panel replacement for 120$.  If the scratch is not super noticeable and you don't want to open the monitor and replace the panel I suggest dealing with it until you can afford a new graphics card and monitor.   If you have to buy a new monitor get the Acer XB241 you suggested since it's better and usually 50$+ cheaper than the PG248Q.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: mauser on October 03, 2018, 06:37:13 pm
First , thanks for all your time and effort.

  Looking for advice on these options...

  Get this ( Philips 257E7QDSB - from your list ) for general web use, and a 32" 1080p led tv for movies.

   or, a 32" flicker free monitor in 1080 or 1440 for web use and movies. ( don't have the Scooby snacks to upgrade my puter and card for 4k )

  Not a gamer, except flight sim X, but open to a gaming monitor .  Just like to have your thoughts on the best options for web, movies, flight sim , thanks.     
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: mr.b on October 03, 2018, 09:50:07 pm
Hello NCX,

I have a Dell U2417H. I use the blue light reduction feature and have the monitor set to "Color Temp" at 5000k[1]. I am looking to use bias lighting with no overhead lighting. With blue light reduction enabled can I use a single 5000k 2500 lumen Lohas LED bulb that you mentioned in your display brightness and room lighting video? Or is there some type of blue light reduction compensating bulb that I need to use?

Also, I found this bulb[2]. I know that you said that you haven't used the Lohas bulb but I wanted to get your thoughts on it, if any, compared to the Lohas.


[1] https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-u2417h-u2417ha/#Calibration
[2] https://www.amazon.com/SANSI-250-200Watt-Equivalent-Omni-Directional-Bulbs-3000/dp/B0728K64SK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1538537398&sr=8-3&keywords=3000+lumens+5000k
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 05, 2018, 12:35:39 am
Looking for advice on these options...

Most TV's, and almost all non-Sony TV's under 500$ are junk compared to affordable monitors.  The cheapest decent TV's I can recommend which are PWM/flicker free are the Sony 43X720E (2017 model) and Sony 43X750F (2018 model; 55" version tested by Rtings).

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x720e

Playwares reviewed the 1440p Viewsonic VX3209 (http://playwares.com/index.php?mid=dpreview&page=10&document_srl=52352066) which is great, and I suspect the VX3211-2K which is more widely available also is.  A few other companies also sell equivalents like the Asus VA32AQ which is hasn't been reviewed, but is likely very similar.  These displays are a good value, but it's still important to ensure that the top of the panel lines up with the top of the viewers head or is a bit higher to ensure minimal AHVA/IPS/PLS glow is minimal.

As for the Philips versus a 32" 1440p monitor, well it's kind of an odd comparison since the 32" panels are nearly double the price.  32" is better for movies and 1440p is better for desktop use, but the same amount could be spent on two 25" 1080p IPS panels (glossy HP 25F and Philips combo?).

I wanted to get your thoughts on it, if any, compared to the Lohas.

It looks fine since it has the right specifications, but the color temperature is 5000k which you might mot like versus a less blue or warmer 2500-3500k standard bulb:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm using a similar light by Anmein (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B071SCBKD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) now (my Philips CFL burned out), but I couldn't find it on the Amazon US site.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: mauser on October 12, 2018, 09:44:17 pm
"Most TV's, and almost all non-Sony TV's under 500$ are junk compared to affordable monitors. "

  looking deeper into your reviews, I found the Samsung s32f351fun. Would this be a better option instead of a 32" 1080 tv.

   Are there any better 32" 1080p flicker free monitors for a tv replacement.   
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 13, 2018, 11:03:16 pm
Are there any better 32" 1080p flicker free monitors for a tv replacement.

There's a bunch of 1080p PWM/Flicker Free monitors like the Acer EB321HQ (white bezel),  ASUS VA325H, LG 32MP58 (2016 model) LG 32A68 (2017), LG 32MA70 (2018), Philips 323E7QDAB and Samsung S32F351 (VA with slower pixel response times/more smearing and less even and vibrant color, but higher contrast and less glow).   The Acer and Asus only have HDMI and VGA while the other IPS panels have three inputs.  I tested the 32MP58 in 2016 (featured in my Red Titan comparison album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/26974588079/in/album-72157687908452942/)) but did not post a review, and Playwares tested the very similar Philips 323E7QDAB (http://playwares.com/index.php?mid=dpreview&page=10&document_srl=52800154) (set gamma to 2.6 and Smart Response to Faster) which has better preset color accuracy once the gamma setting is changed.  Acer will provide the best perceived black depth of the IPS panels since the bezel is white, but it only has 1x HDMI and VGA, and has not been reviewed. 

The fully glossy coating the LG 32MP58 I tested uses washes out the image quality a bit while the Acer, Asus and Samsung uses the same excellent almost-glossy/low haze coating as the Qnix UHD32R (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/monitor-reviews-by-ncx/qnix-uhd32r-review-4k-glossy-auo-ahva-panel-with-amd-free-sync/msg213/#msg213) and 25-27" 1080p HP CW/er/es/XW monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/monitor-reviews-by-ncx/hp-25er-25es-review-almost-glossy-1080p-lg-ah-ips/?message=70).  I'm not sure what type of glossy variant the other LG monitors and Philips use, though the photos of the Philips in the Playwares review indicate that it also has an almost-glossy/low haze coating which is my favorite type of gloss.

If you only need 1 HDMI try the Acer since the white bezel increases the perceived black depth enough to negate most of the contrast benefits the slower and less vibrant Samsung VA panel has.  If you want to use the display in the dark or with very dim lighting then the Samsung is the clear choice since the white bezel and 3,000:1 contrast vastly improve dark room viewing if the brightness isn't cranked.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: viisual on October 30, 2018, 12:27:22 pm
Hi NCX,

Glad to see you're still around and heavily involved with monitors.  You've always provided great reviews, best of lists, and support to the community!

My computer is about 9 years old with one or two upgrades since it's inception.  I'm starting to suffer from <120 FPS in games and it's invalidating my monitor's usefulness. 

Here's what I have:
i7 2600k // GTX 970 // 16 GB 1333 mhz // LG 24GM77 (1080p 144hz)

New Build:
i7 9700k // 1080 ti or 2080 ti // 16 GB 3200ish? // ???

I have about a 2' - 3' viewing distance to work with for the monitor.

Are gamers still trending towards the higher frequency/hz feature, or have we started to trend towards visual fidelity/quality?

What I think I want:

Indecision:

Can you suggest a few monitors, I should definitely be considering, with the information I have provided?

p.s. what's your quick thoughts on ultra-wides and/or concave screens?

edit:  I noticed on reddit a thread about the future of G-Sync with HDMI 2.1.  Thoughts? (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/9sop9b/future_of_gsync_hdmi_21_vrr_support_freesync/)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 01, 2018, 02:20:24 am
Quote from: viisual
I'm starting to suffer from <120 FPS in games and it's invalidating my monitor's usefulness.

It's possible to save a few FPS by using a custom resolution of 1440x900 (more FPS; small black bars on all sides) or 1680x1050 (small black bars on the top and bottom) with Nvidia Aspect ratio scaling or a displays 1:1 pixel mapping.

New Build:
i7 9700k // 1080 ti or 2080 ti // 16 GB 3200ish? // ???

2080 ti of course.  The 2080 ti is perfect for 144-165fps @1440p and good for 4K-60.

Quote from: viisual
I have about a 2' - 3' viewing distance to work with for the monitor.

2.5ft for an ultra-wide 34" IPS, and more if it's an UW VA panel.

Quote from: viisual
Are gamers still trending towards the higher frequency/hz feature, or have we started to trend towards visual fidelity/quality?

I prioritize image quality, but not to the point where I'd recommend a 60hz AHVA/IPS/PLS panel to someone asking about budget (<300$) 144hz monitors.   

Quote from: viisual
Can you suggest a few monitors, I should definitely be considering, with the information I have provided?

Budget?  The only affordable monitor for PC gaming with Nvidia cards I like are the matte AOC AG271QG (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg342/#msg342)) and the discontinued Viewsonic XG2703-GS with 144-165hz 1440p AHVA panels (marketed as IPS) with G-Sync.  Both are better than the Acer XB271HU (worst of the 4), cheaper (100$+) than the Asus PG279Q (most common back-light bleed, though the unit I tested was bleed-less)  The Asus is theoretically more accurate (the unit Rtings tested a few months ago was significantly more accurate than the unit I tested in 2016) than the AOC, but it lacks gamma settings to combat the low preset gamma these monitors can come with while the AOC and Viewsonic have gamma settings.  All four of the monitors I tested came with low preset gamma (Viewsonic was the best but still needed a gamma increase), but the AOC and Viewsonic have the most accurate color presets.

G-Sync is amazing if one hates screen tearing and ustable frame-rates, though some games feel unstable even with it enabled.  I hate screen tearing, but not enough to deal with a matte screen which is why I still use an overclock-able (96hz) 2560x1440 X-Star DP2710 glossy PLS from 2013, plus most of my gaming time has been dedicated to Destiny and D2 (Pro) on PS4 since 2015.  None of the PC games I've played this year (30 hours of Fallout New Vegas until it crashed infinitely, 40 hours of S.TA.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky and 30 hours of Vermintide 1 & 2) suffered from lots of tearing which makes not having G-Sync a worthy trade off for the glossy coating, plus Nvidia Fast Sync (enable in NVCP) works well with some games.  Last fall I played a bunch of Assassin's Creed 3 on the Acer XB321HK (4K AHVA with G-Sync); AC3 is unplayable without G-Sync at 4K with my 980 ti due to tearing and frame-rate instability.  My point is that G-Sync appreciation may vary greatly depending on ones display preferences, and the games being played.
 
Quote from: viisual
what's your quick thoughts on ultra-wides and/or concave screens?

I've been using at least two monitors side-by-side since 2010, dislike matte monitors and both curved and fake bezel/frame-less panels (all UW IPS), plus I already owned 3 monitors I really liked when UW's first showed up.

Quote from: viisual
I noticed on reddit a thread about the future of G-Sync with HDMI 2.1.  Thoughts?

There's nothing concrete in there to think about.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: viisual on November 04, 2018, 12:57:02 am
I prioritize image quality, but not to the point where I'd recommend a 60hz AHVA/IPS/PLS panel to someone asking about budget (<300$) 144hz monitors.   

...

Budget?

Yea I'm coming to the same conclusion.  I think anything over $750 might be pushing it; unless it offers something really good for the extra money.  It's hard to pay more for a monitor than a television... although I guess I sit in front of my monitor more; perhaps I should reconsider that sentiment.

I saw some calculations that driving a 3456x1440 would be almost as hard as driving a 4K display.  If that's the case, I'd prefer to have higher FPS on a traditional 27" 1440p.  If I could achieve 120/144 FPS and have a UW 1440p with HDR/G-sync that would be perfect, but I think I'll have to settle at 27" 1440p 120/144hz G-Sync HDR.

What can you suggest now that I've narrowed down my selection.

Thanks again NCX, I know I saw you post a paypal earlier, do you have a bitcoin address perhaps?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: viisual on November 07, 2018, 05:41:14 pm
Mmm maybe 1440p UW 120hz gsync should be my target?  (No HDR though is lame, I don't believe any current UW models support all those features)

UW 1440p results on 2080 ti:
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8738/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-review-seriously-buy/index16.html
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 08, 2018, 01:38:36 am
What can you suggest now that I've narrowed down my selection.

AOC AG271QG (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg342/#msg342)) unless the Acer XB271HU is 100$+ cheaper since that 100$ can be put towards an X-Rite colormunki colorimeter (150$) which will vastly improve the monitor via calibration.  All four 144-165hz 1440p AUO AHVA panels (marketed as IPS) suffer from an obvious preset green/yellow tint to varying degrees.

Quote from: viisual
Thanks again NCX, I know I saw you post a paypal earlier, do you have a bitcoin address perhaps?

I do but I haven't researched how to get the fiat-shekels out of crypto and back into my bank account in Canada.  I guess I can buy some TRX and hope it sky rockets from 2 cents to 30 cents again in December or January before the crash.

BTC address:
Spoiler (hover to show)

Mmm maybe 1440p UW 120hz gsync should be my target?  (No HDR though is lame, I don't believe any current UW models support all those features)

UW 1440p results on 2080 ti:
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8738/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-review-seriously-buy/index16.html

The newest UW LG with G-Sync has 1/3 HDR support (8 bit +FRC panel with >90% DCI-P3 coverage but very low brightness and lack of local dimming) at 1200$ and lacks an sRGB mode to prevent vast over-saturation when not viewing non DCI-P3/HDR media.  The Acer and Asus UW IPS are very inconsistent and inaccurate preset color accuracy wise in their 2-3 year market life (launch Asus PG348Q's  from 2015-2016 were very accurate while the store bought unit Rtings tested this year was awful (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/rog-swift-pg348q#comparison_1467)) and the Alienware, which while consistent, has non linear and very high gamma (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw3418dw#comparison_1467) which causes black crush and makes colors and shades too dark.  The Acer (updated version with 120hz OC has even worse preset black crush and non-linear gamma than the Alienware (https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/acer-predator-x34p-gaming-monitor,5622-4.html)), Alienware and Asus are all embarrassments preset color accuracy wise to the point that I can't recommend any of them, especially since they're all 2-3 years old.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: viisual on November 09, 2018, 06:43:40 pm
I do but I haven't researched how to get the fiat-shekels out of crypto and back into my bank account in Canada.  I guess I can buy some TRX and hope it sky rockets from 2 cents to 30 cents again in December or January before the crash.
Just use them at newegg :P

The newest UW LG with G-Sync has 1/3 HDR support (8 bit +FRC panel with >90% DCI-P3 coverage but very low brightness and lack of local dimming) at 1200$ and lacks an sRGB mode to prevent vast over-saturation when not viewing non DCI-P3/HDR media. 
...
the Alienware, which while consistent, has non linear and very high gamma (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw3418dw#comparison_1467) which causes black crush and makes colors and shades too dark. 
...
Alienware and Asus are all embarrassments preset color accuracy wise to the point that I can't recommend any of them, especially since they're all 2-3 years old.

Sounds like you're not to happy with the newest LG model.

Just to be clear, is the Alienware any good post calibration, or is it so scuffed it's incapable of achieving good results even with calibration.

Dang that AW model is 2 years old and still $850, doesn't look like  any 1440p UW 120hz is in a consumer's bracket, eh?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 13, 2018, 01:46:14 am
Just use them at newegg :P

NewEgg is one of the worst places to buy electronics from in Canada due to their price matching ease, return policies, and shipping prices, especially since their are better Canadian retailers to buy from.

Quote from: viisual
Sounds like you're not to happy with the newest LG model.

Vast color over-saturation (LG 34GK950G=98 %DCI=P3 coverage and 133% HDTV/REC 709 & sRGB=33% over-saturation (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_34gk950g.htm#colour)) disrespects the effort and time content creators put into making their content look the way it does, as well as evoke the atmosphere or mood intended.  Fallout and Gears Of War would not be the same if they had the same art style as Candy Land.

In 2006, a year after decent affordable (<1000) IPS and VA monitors became common both LG (IPS) and Samsung (S-PVA) switched to wide gamut panels without proper color-space emulation or sRGB modes for years; I'm afraid companies are going to do this again since I've seen a few other DCI-P3/HDR monitors which lack sRGB modes like the LG.  We might be entering the last days of decent "high end" consumer monitors without over-saturation for a while.

Quote from: viisual
Just to be clear, is the Alienware any good post calibration, or is it so scuffed it's incapable of achieving good results even with calibration.

Calibration by a colorimeter (250$ X-Rite i1 display pro is appropriate for the AW) and an ICC profile is required since the Acer, Asus and Alienware lack gamma settings which can improve them and provide normal gamma.  The AW is good once calibrated (see below), and could be worth buying a colorimeter for since the new LG 950G costs 200 (178 for i1 display pro) more than the others in the UK, and because the next batch of UW G-Sync monitors might also lack HDTV/REC 709 or sRGB modes, or have poor ones which under-saturate the colors, lock the brightness and color controls which is typical for sub 1000$ wide gamut panels.  Usually only 24" 1200p 60hz Eizo and NEC wide gamut monitors under 1000$ offer decent and/or fully customize-able color space emulation modes.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw3418dw#comparison_1467 (linked in text in previous reply)
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_alienware_aw3418dw.htm#calibration

Quote from: viisual
any 1440p UW 120hz is in a consumer's bracket, eh

I don't keep track of UW prices.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: rroonnbb on November 15, 2018, 04:00:50 pm
Any chance you've got a review of the HP Z27 coming up? Wirecutter just named it their top pick (https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-4k-monitors/) and generally I'm aligned with the criteria they consider important.

Having said that, they make no mention of the LG 27UK850 which would be another option I'm strongly considering. 

(I'm actually looking for a dual-monitor setup coming off a new MacMini... so if I go LG I'd likely do one 27UK850 paired with a 27UK650... that'll give me a USB-C port from the more expensive monitor but presumably otherwise they'll look pretty close to identical.)

(and this is primarily for productivity and photo-editing... no gaming)

Thanks for all the great knowledge you're sharing!

 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 15, 2018, 10:08:50 pm
Any chance you've got a review of the HP Z27 coming up? Wirecutter just named it their top pick (https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-4k-monitors/) and generally I'm aligned with the criteria they consider important.

No (it's not available here and is just a generic matte 4K re-skin which doesn't interest me), and I don't use that site since they don't provide enough information to know if a display is good or not since they ignore the preset RGB level accuracy, gamma, PWM, overdrive performance, input lag, ect.

Quote from: rroonnbno
mention of the LG 27UK850 which would be another option I'm strongly considering.
 

Best Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/msg29/#msg29) section of my Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 4-5K AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/) buying guide.

I don't recommend the 27UK850 since it offers the same image quality as the cheaper LG models which are less accurate than the 850's similarly priced competition like the Asus PB27UQ (Australia & Europe), Viewsonic XG2700-4K and Viewsonic VP2780-4K which lack USB-C, but are significantly more accurate than the 850.  The Dell P2715Q (360-420$ in the US) and Monoprice RTD2795 (low glow AHVA panel) are also better values since they're cheaper and offer better performance than the 850, but no USB-C.

If after USB-C you'll have to pay a premium for monitors with worse performance than the models suggested above.  If it's a must then get the 27UK850 since the Dell U2718Q is less accurate and uses PWM.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: chrischiang on November 16, 2018, 11:13:14 am
Hello ncx,

I'm looking for dual monitors to replace my current old viewsonic vx2336s..  Looking for 144hz 24inch monitors..

i'm eyeing on Viewsonic Vx2458-c-mhd.. although is a VA panel, but it advertise to have 85% ntsc.. so the color should be comparable to IPS panel?

Another option would be Acer xf240h..both having the similar spec 144hz, 1ms response, full hd... although xf240h is 2015 model..but it shall still do fine right?

Which would you recommend me to get on black friday? If you have any other suggestion that fall within the same budget, please share with me.. Appreciate and thanks!!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 17, 2018, 08:42:42 pm
it advertise to have 85% ntsc.. so the color should be comparable to IPS panel?


All VA panels suffer from horizontal gamma shift and black crush in the center which reduces color evenness, vibrancy, and the ability to see detail in dark scenes unless viewing the VA panel at a slight off-center angle.  The 85% indicates that the panel has a semi-wide gamut panel with an extended color space which causes some over-saturation.  Some colors can look more vibrant compared to a non-wide gamut panel, but overall a good AHVA/IPS/PLS panel will still look better due to lack of gamma shift and center crush.

Quote from: chrischiang
but it shall still do fine right?

It's good* (I reviewed it and the Viewsonic XG2402 here (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/monitor-reviews-by-ncx/acer-xf240h-review-()-viewsonic-xg2402-review-144hz-1080p-matte-tn-panels-with-a/)) once the gamma settings are changed at 144hz, but the 24" panels suffer from obvious banding in dark scenes while the newer 24.5" panels do not, but suffer from signifcant contrast and color accuracy inconsistency between the same tested panels.

*Good by TN panel standards

Quote from: chrischiang
Which would you recommend me to get on black friday? If you have any other suggestion that fall within the same budget, please share with me.. Appreciate and thanks!!

Acer=TN panel with very restrictive viewing angles, vertical gamma shift (dull and uneven colors), and obvious banding in dark scenes (normal for 24" TN panels)

Viewsonic=VA panel with horizontal gamma shift, center crush, slower pixel response times and slight text blur which I provide two links about in the Best Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) section of my Best Reviewed Flicker Free 144hz 1080p Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/) buying guide.

The Viewsonic theoretically (untested) has better image quality (wider viewing angles and more vibrant and even color) at the expense of pixel response items (more ghosting) and slightly less sharp test.  This isn't a simple matter of picking which is better or not, but I suggest trying the Viewsonic if it can be purchased from a retailer with a hassle free exchange and return policy. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: chrischiang on November 17, 2018, 09:48:04 pm
it advertise to have 85% ntsc.. so the color should be comparable to IPS panel?


All VA panels suffer from horizontal gamma shift and black crush in the center which reduces color evenness, vibrancy, and the ability to see detail in dark scenes unless viewing the VA panel at a slight off-center angle.  The 85% indicates that the panel has a semi-wide gamut panel with an extended color space which causes some over-saturation.  Some colors can look more vibrant compared to a non-wide gamut panel, but overall a good AHVA/IPS/PLS panel will still look better due to lack of gamma shift and center crush.

Quote from: chrischiang
but it shall still do fine right?

It's good* (I reviewed it and the Viewsonic XG2402 here (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/monitor-reviews-by-ncx/acer-xf240h-review-()-viewsonic-xg2402-review-144hz-1080p-matte-tn-panels-with-a/)) once the gamma settings are changed at 144hz, but the 24" panels suffer from obvious banding in dark scenes while the newer 24.5" panels do not, but suffer from signifcant contrast and color accuracy inconsistency between the same tested panels.

*Good by TN panel standards

Quote from: chrischiang
Which would you recommend me to get on black friday? If you have any other suggestion that fall within the same budget, please share with me.. Appreciate and thanks!!

Acer=TN panel with very restrictive viewing angles, vertical gamma shift (dull and uneven colors), and obvious banding in dark scenes (normal for 24" TN panels)

Viewsonic=VA panel with horizontal gamma shift, center crush, slower pixel response times and slight text blur which I provide two links about in the Best Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) section of my Best Reviewed Flicker Free 144hz 1080p Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/) buying guide.

The Viewsonic theoretically (untested) has better image quality (wider viewing angles and more vibrant and even color) at the expense of pixel response items (more ghosting) and slightly less sharp test.  This isn't a simple matter of picking which is better or not, but I suggest trying the Viewsonic if it can be purchased from a retailer with a hassle free exchange and return policy.

Thanks for your detail explanation!! i will try to find a local store that have viewsonic set to try it out 1st.. if i couldnt find 1.. i shall go with acer!! thank you very much
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: chrischiang on November 20, 2018, 07:35:49 pm
hello, is me again... i went to my local shop, they only have viewsonic vx2458-c-mhd and viewsonic xg2401 for 144hz.. but they do not have display unit for both.. i cant actually see the screen display myself..

I have hard time choosing better this 2. I understand xg2401 will be able to adjust height, but that not my concern..

my concern is i read a lot, TN panel would have poorer color comparing to VN and IPS.. For my usage, 30% movies, 40% work & surfing, 30% games, which would be a better go in my case??
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 21, 2018, 03:29:09 am
which would be a better go in my case??

I can't determine this for you since it comes down to personal preference or willingness to accept each panel types flaws, such as TN panels dull and vertically uneven colors and very restrictive viewing angles versus the curved VA panels slightly less sharp text and VA panel gamma shift and center crush.  If reading text is not a priority then the VA panel would easily be the better choice, assuming you're fine with VA panel gamma shift and center crush.  Also, buying a monitor isn't a big deal if you have access to retailers with hassle free exchange and return policies.

Perhaps you should forget about 144hz and get a 75hz 1080p or 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS panel instead since they're more suitable for you uses, especially since almost all of the TN panels made in the past few years are awful for watching content due to the banding in dark scenes. 

1080p 75hz: The Dell SE2717H and Philips 276E9 (Europe only; it's my top 1080p choice).  Some of the 1080p & 1440p 75hz panels only support up to 73-74hz and must also be manually overclocked when connected to Nvidia graphics cards.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/)

The Asus VZ27AQ, Dell S2719DM, iiyama XUB2792QSU-B1 and Samsung S27H850QFU are the best of the non-wide gamut 2560x1440 IPS/PLS 60-75hz monitors for casual (non 144hz+) gaming and preset color accuracy wise they support 73-74* (overclocked with Nvidia gpu) to 75hz (native with AMD cards) and AMD Free-Sync.  The Dell lacks a height adjustable stand and is not VESA compliant, and the Samsung uses a PLS panel and LED PWM Dimming or Flicker when the brightness is set below 31% or 31/100 in the menu.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: chrischiang on November 21, 2018, 07:41:53 pm
which would be a better go in my case??

I can't determine this for you since it comes down to personal preference or willingness to accept each panel types flaws, such as TN panels dull and vertically uneven colors and very restrictive viewing angles versus the curved VA panels slightly less sharp text and VA panel gamma shift and center crush.  If reading text is not a priority then the VA panel would easily be the better choice, assuming you're fine with VA panel gamma shift and center crush.  Also, buying a monitor isn't a big deal if you have access to retailers with hassle free exchange and return policies.

Perhaps you should forget about 144hz and get a 75hz 1080p or 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS panel instead since they're more suitable for you uses, especially since almost all of the TN panels made in the past few years are awful for watching content due to the banding in dark scenes. 

1080p 75hz: The Dell SE2717H and Philips 276E9 (Europe only; it's my top 1080p choice).  Some of the 1080p & 1440p 75hz panels only support up to 73-74hz and must also be manually overclocked when connected to Nvidia graphics cards.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/)

The Asus VZ27AQ, Dell S2719DM, iiyama XUB2792QSU-B1 and Samsung S27H850QFU are the best of the non-wide gamut 2560x1440 IPS/PLS 60-75hz monitors for casual (non 144hz+) gaming and preset color accuracy wise they support 73-74* (overclocked with Nvidia gpu) to 75hz (native with AMD cards) and AMD Free-Sync.  The Dell lacks a height adjustable stand and is not VESA compliant, and the Samsung uses a PLS panel and LED PWM Dimming or Flicker when the brightness is set below 31% or 31/100 in the menu.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/)

Hmm, thanks for the suggestion, but any recommendation for good 75hz ips screen 24inch monitor? Im setting up dual monitor, 27inch would not be so suitable in my case..  Dell S2417H?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 21, 2018, 09:47:41 pm
Hmm, thanks for the suggestion, but any recommendation for good 75hz ips screen 24inch monitor? Im setting up dual monitor, 27inch would not be so suitable in my case..  Dell S2417H?

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/)

Read the Best Glossy and Matte sections, as well as view the almost-glossy/Low Haze vs semi-glossy comparisons.  Half of my responses consist of re-posted content from my buying guides, and the matte 27" 1080p 75hz monitors are higher quality than the 24-25" panels.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Pactor on November 25, 2018, 06:06:48 pm
Hello, thank you very much for all your work.
I ask you after having researched everything I know and having seen your post of better monitors, but I am saturated with information and I have no reference to know how drastic are the characteristics that you say about each monitor.

I'm looking for a 24 "monitor, at 75Hz +, 1080p, I want it for gaming and watch movies, so I'm more worried about not having ghosting (since it makes me dizzy) but not losing a lot of color / image quality. A medium response time is fine for me, I will not play competitive professional.
I want to spend between 200/300.
Could you recommend me a couple of monitors?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 27, 2018, 07:57:21 pm
I want to spend between 200/300.  Could you recommend me a couple of monitors?

The answer to your question is in my reply above your post to chrischiang who asked a very similar question...

There's only a few top tier options which are all mentioned in the Best Glossy and Matte sections of my Best Reviewed Flicker Free 24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25'-1080p-ipspls-monitors/).   Also your budget may allow for a 75hz 1440p IPS panels: Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/)

There's a number of extremely similar 75hz 1080p and 1440p IPS panels, many of which are only available in Europe at various prices which is why it's best if you spend the time looking and comparing prices, and store exchange and return policies.  The white version of the 1440p 75hz iiyama, the iiyama ProLite XUB2792QSU-W1, is 314 euros which makes it the most competitively priced since it comes with a height adjustable stand while it's main top tier competitor, the Asus VZ27AQ does not yet is the same price, and the Samsung S27H850QFU costs significantly more (looked at Amazon Germany prices).
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: peat moss on December 02, 2018, 05:19:39 am
Hi NCX,

I would like to get a separate screen just for watching movies. I have a 21" computer monitor that I use for all my computer work, but watching movies on it is less than optimal.  I will be watching movies at my desk so I don't want anything too big (no bigger than 32" at least). The movies will be played on a Blu-ray drive in my PC.

My question:

Is it better to watch Blu-ray movies on a computer monitor, or a dedicated television? If a computer monitor is 1440p (or 2160p, etc) and has to scale to 1080p does it lose any image quality compared to a TV? If so, would it be better to watch a Blu-ray movie on a native 1080p TV?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on December 05, 2018, 02:21:53 pm
Is it better to watch Blu-ray movies on a computer monitor, or a dedicated television? If a computer monitor is 1440p (or 2160p, etc) and has to scale to 1080p does it lose any image quality compared to a TV? If so, would it be better to watch a Blu-ray movie on a native 1080p TV?

The larger the display the more obvious downloaded and streamed media banding and compression is, regardless of the display or source resolution.  For example, 1080p Netflix show X with a 3.8mbs bit rate will look significantly worse than 1080p Netflix show Y which has an 8mbs bit rate.  Up-scaling of 1080p on a 1440 or 4K display set to the native resolution is negligible, but the size rule still applies: the larger the display the more obvious source flaws are. 

If used with bias (light behind the display) or bright room lighting the best 32" 4K monitors under 1000$ US like the BenQ PD3200U (matte) and Qnix UHD32R (glossy; I prefer it over my Sony 49X900E for non-HDR content) are better for viewing media since they use AHVA panels with less glow than IPS in TV's like the 2018 Sony 43X750F I tested, and don't suffer from horizontal gamma shift and center black crush like VA panels do, as well as have significantly more ghosting (smearing of blacks, browns and greys), and PWM flicker+blur in most cases. 

I don't make Best Reviewed Flicker Free TV buying guides since there are very few PWM/Flicker free Tv's, but I read reviews as well as have tested quite a few.  The only TV sold currently around 1000$ that I would consider is the Sony 49X900F (Rtings tested the 55" version (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f)), but it must be viewed from quite far away (5ft) to avoid viewing angle issues while a 32" 4K AHVA panel can be viewed from a little over 2.5ft without seeing discoloring or washout at the sides of the panel.  32" 4K VA panels need to be viewed from a bit further away.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 32" 4K AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-32'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/)

A note about TV reviews: Pay attention to the size reviewed since a Sony 49X900F is not necessarily as good as the more expensive 55" version, as was the case with my Sony 49X900E which came with 1.9 gamma (washed out colors) and is significantly less accurate than the 55" version.  The same is also true of the Samsung 43NU71000 I tested (measurements aren't up yet) which is significantly more accurate than the 55" version Rtings tested (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/nu7100), but sadly still uses PWM, and the VA panel viewing angle issues made it annoying to use as a monitor from less than 4ft away.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: madDog on December 26, 2018, 02:43:19 pm
Hey there ncx, i was wondering why you recommend the Lenovo Y27g in your Best 24-27" 144hz 1080p G-Sync Monitors ? From all the reviews i'v read, and videos i'v seen a lot of people seem to be having problems with gsync on this monitor causing flickering and overdrive function being unusable.I'm asking because i could get one for a really good price, and that's why the dilemma.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Junkyy on December 29, 2018, 06:17:35 pm
Hello NCX,

I am in search for a 144hz TN panel and as my low budget allows me I've decided to end up with either a Viewsonic XG2401 or the newer model XG2402.
Both of these two models are available in my country, with the XG2402 being more expensive for 10 Euros.

Is there any other drawback on the xg2402 model, except the lack of a gray bezel that its predecessor had( i saw you mentioning this on another post)
Are there any other pros on the xg2402 except the better looks?
Is there any difference in the colors or the response time between the two?

If you have any information related to these monitors i would be glad to hear your recommendation between the two.  :)

PS:Are the AOC G2460PF / AOC G2590PX by any chance better to the other Viewsonic ones?




Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on December 30, 2018, 01:38:14 am
Hey there ncx, i was wondering why you recommend the Lenovo Y27g in your Best 24-27" 144hz 1080p G-Sync Monitors ? From all the reviews i'v read, and videos i'v seen a lot of people seem to be having problems with gsync on this monitor causing flickering and overdrive function being unusable.I'm asking because i could get one for a really good price, and that's why the dilemma.

The two reviews I have for the Lenovo (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg402/#msg402) are fairly positive, and don't mention flickering issues.  The first comment from the Lenovo Flickering issue video (https://tinyurl.com/ybwwll66) creator states that setting the overdrive setting to Off instead of Normal gets rid of the flickering present in the video.  Other commenters claim that turning off the Adaptive Contrast monitor setting and ensuring that Only Full Screen G-Sync setting is selected in the Nvidia Control panel also fixes the issue.  Read my post which contains setting improvements, read the video comments and make sure it can be purchased from a retailer with a hassle free exchange and return policy if you want to try one out.

Hello NCX,

I am in search for a 144hz TN panel and as my low budget allows me I've decided to end up with either a Viewsonic XG2401 or the newer model XG2402.
Both of these two models are available in my country, with the XG2402 being more expensive for 10 Euros.

Is there any other drawback on the xg2402 model, except the lack of a gray bezel that its predecessor had( i saw you mentioning this on another post)
Are there any other pros on the xg2402 except the better looks?
Is there any difference in the colors or the response time between the two?

If you have any information related to these monitors i would be glad to hear your recommendation between the two.  :)

PS:Are the AOC G2460PF / AOC G2590PX by any chance better to the other Viewsonic ones?

The XG2402 is marginally faster than the XG2401, but at these speeds it doesn't matter since the XG2401 is nearly as fast as a TN can be, has more consistently accurate color preset quality and contrast, and has a perceived black depth increasing grey bezel which I would pay more for.  The AOC PF is one of the worst 144hz monitors and the PX suffers from significant image quality variance between the panels tested (this information is featured in the Best Free-Sync monitors (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) and AOC monitors sections (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg394/#msg394) in my best 144hz 1080p buying guide)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: peat moss on January 12, 2019, 06:17:54 pm
Is it better to watch Blu-ray movies on a computer monitor, or a dedicated television? If a computer monitor is 1440p (or 2160p, etc) and has to scale to 1080p does it lose any image quality compared to a TV? If so, would it be better to watch a Blu-ray movie on a native 1080p TV?

The larger the display the more obvious downloaded and streamed media banding and compression is, regardless of the display or source resolution.  For example, 1080p Netflix show X with a 3.8mbs bit rate will look significantly worse than 1080p Netflix show Y which has an 8mbs bit rate.  Up-scaling of 1080p on a 1440 or 4K display set to the native resolution is negligible, but the size rule still applies: the larger the display the more obvious source flaws are. 

If used with bias (light behind the display) or bright room lighting the best 32" 4K monitors under 1000$ US like the BenQ PD3200U (matte) and Qnix UHD32R (glossy; I prefer it over my Sony 49X900E for non-HDR content) are better for viewing media since they use AHVA panels with less glow than IPS in TV's like the 2018 Sony 43X750F I tested, and don't suffer from horizontal gamma shift and center black crush like VA panels do, as well as have significantly more ghosting (smearing of blacks, browns and greys), and PWM flicker+blur in most cases. 

I don't making Best Reviewed Flicker Free TV buying guides since there are very few PWM/Flicker free Tv's, but I read reviews as well as have tested quite a few.  The only TV sold currently around 1000$ that I would consider is the Sony 49X900F (Rtings tested the 55" version (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f)), but it must be viewed from quite far away (5ft) to avoid viewing angle issues while a 32" 4K AHVA panel can be viewed from a little over 2.5ft without seeing discoloring or washout at the sides of the panel.  32" 4K VA panels need to be viewed from a bit further away.

Best Reviewed Flicker Free 32" 4K AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-32'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/)

A note about TV reviews: Pay attention to the size reviewed since a Sony 49X900F is not necessarily as good as the more expensive 55" version, as was the case with my Sony 49X900E which came with 1.9 gamma (washed out colors) and is significantly less accurate than the 55" version.  The same is also true of the Samsung 43NU71000 I tested (measurements aren't up yet) which is significantly more accurate than the 55" version Rtings tested (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/nu7100), but sadly still uses PWM, and the VA panel viewing angle issues made it annoying to use as a monitor from less than 4ft away.

Thanks NCX.  Is there any loss of picture quality when watching 2K content on a 4K monitor?  Is it better to watch blu-ray content on a native 1080p monitor?

I am wondering about any scaling issues.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on January 16, 2019, 09:51:03 pm
Quote from: peat moss link
Is there any loss of picture quality when watching 2K content on a 4K monitor?

Yes, but it's not worth worrying about at all unless viewing low (non blu-ray or sub-1080p) content.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Pactor on March 11, 2019, 12:18:29 pm
Hello, I return with more budget and with the clearest ideas of what I am looking for.

Im looking for a monitor 1440p, 144hz. I prefer it IPS because I'm very annoyed by the intense banding color of the TN panels, but if there is any TN that solves that problem then I would consider it. My budget is ~650.

My main problem is with the overshoot ghosting, so I come to ask for recommendations for monitors that have this as little as possible. Specialy the inverse ghosting.

My graphics card is an nvidia 2080 so I do not care if the monitor has G-Sync or FreeSync compatible.

I've been keeping an eye on the reviews of Acer Nitro VG270UP, Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD, AOC AG271QG, ViewSonic XG2703-GS and Dell S2719DGF at PC Monitors and at http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/
But it is not clear to me which is better for me.

Anyway, I am open to other recommendations.
Mainly I want the monitor for gaming (sometimes competitive), and as a second option to watch movies.
Currently I live in United Kingdom.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on March 12, 2019, 10:20:00 pm
My main problem is with the overshoot ghosting, so I come to ask for recommendations for monitors that have this as little as possible.

All TN panels have worse image quality than the large amount of good <130-200 IPS, and only the Acer XB271HU (@ 60hz) and Innolux IPS (Acer VG270UP, Acer VG271UP & Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD) suffer from obvious overshoot, but the Innolux IPS only do when their highest overdrive setting is activated, which is not necessary.  The IPS are slightly slower (up to 3ms), but overshoot free when their preset overdrive setting is used:

Spoiler (hover to show)

OD Opt=best or most optimal overdrive settings for each monitor

The Gigabyte's overdrive is still fine for gaming (Rtings loved it (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/aorus/ad27qd#comparison_1427) while I base my analysis on multiple reviewers), and it has very consistently great preset color accuracy.

The G-Sync monitors have guaranteed functional variable overdrive with Nvidia cards, but it's possible to buy an Acer XF270HUA and an accurate colorimeter (X-rite colormunki or i1 display pro) for calibration for less than 650 .  The Viewsonic XG2703-GS is the best and most consistently accurate of the G-Sync panels, but obviously can't match the image quality of a calibrated monitor with the same type of panel.  The Acer XF270HUA and colorimeter are a better value than the Gigabyte and Viewsonic, plus the XF270HUA uses an AHVA panel with better overdrive than the Gigabyte.  The only reason to consider TN panels is when trying to pay as possible for a 144hz 1440p monitor, or if after 240hz for CS: GO.




Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: BDash on April 01, 2019, 12:52:36 pm
I'm looking for a monitor with native G-Sync, 1440p, IPS or IPS-type panel, capable of scaling 1080p sources well and at least 144hz. The top ones you've listed here are unfortunately both discontinued and are being sold for way higher than what they originally cost. I'm holding out for the lg-27GL850G-B but there's still no solid release date and i'm kinda tired of waiting.

I've also been told to ignore native G-Sync entirely and get the compatible FreeSync monitors but after looking at this list https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/nvidias-list-of-g-sync-compatible-monitors-expands/ I'm not seeing many there that matches your list of equivalent FreeSync displays. I'm also not entirely comfortable with sticking with G-Sync compatible Freesync since it probably won't be as stable as G-Sync monitors, even certified. I'd also need an RTX card or a AMD card and i'm not sure if I feel like switching from nvidia at the moment

I'm also open to FreeSync suggestions that matches my criteria.

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 01, 2019, 05:32:04 pm
I've also been told to ignore native G-Sync entirely

In America the untested Nixeus Edge 27 V2 sells for 400$, and in some countries in Europe the Acer VG270UP also does.  The Acer XF270HUAbmiidprzx also sells for 400-500 in the UK.  Saving 150-200$ and skipping G-Sync does seem like a pretty good deal, especially since Nvidia 9 series and up support Fast Sync, and because some games run poorly even with G-Sync, though I haven't kept track of G-Sync performance in games or played new PC games in 2 years.

I can unenthusiastic-ally recommend the Asus PG279QZ (still PG279Q in Europe but updated; check the side of the box or back of the monitor for a build date) since it's pretty accurate unlike the Acer XB271HU, but I know Viewsonic announced an XG2703-GS successor a few months ago, and Gigabyte announced a G-Sync version of the AD27QD, plus Acer will likely replace the XB271HU this year since it's almost 3 years old.  The next options is the Acer XF270HUAbmiidprzx which has a more accurate and faster AUO AHVA panel versus the VG270UP available now, plus the XF270HUA has a height adjustable stand.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: punked on April 11, 2019, 12:10:04 pm
Hello everyone.
First thanks for you reviews really helped me to get 2 or monitors to choose. Since awhile i was searching to buy a new monitor 1440p 144hz IPS/VA ? . At first i wanted the Samsung ch32 VA but after a few reads i saw it's a bit slow and has some ghosting.
Then i come across here and saw this Acer XF270HUA and honestly is the one im more inclined to try. I saw they lunched this new XV272UP altough i saw some guys on acer forum having a few problems with it.
So i want to know what you think i should get the XF270HUA or try XV272UP? Thanks
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 11, 2019, 05:39:15 pm
So i want to know what you think i should get the XF270HUA or try XV272UP?

Acer XF270HUA bmiidprzx since there are no reviews of the XV272UP, and because it uses an Innolux IPS panel which tend to have signal loss or flickering issues.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: punked on April 12, 2019, 11:10:05 am
So i want to know what you think i should get the XF270HUA or try XV272UP?

Acer XF270HUA bmiidprzx since there are no reviews of the XV272UP, and because it uses an Innolux IPS panel which tend to have signal loss or flickering issues.
I just ordered it. Will receive on monday,let's hope i get some luck. I'm gonna read about how to check for blackbleed and those known "issues" with panels, i will update after. Thanks for your help NCX.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Justhavocman on April 13, 2019, 06:41:06 am
Hello NCX , long time lurker , first time poster , been meaning to "upgrade" my set up , i currently use a U2715H for gaming and it's time for me to go get something faster on a lower resolution , i've thoroughly read all of your Best of "XXX" lists and i still can not make up my mind , i have a tight budget of 280-300 and every monitor in that price range comes with a ton of drawbacks , at first i thought the XG2402  and the XF240H would be good middle ground monitors but turns out they do have some serious banding issues . I am at a stand still , been eyeing over the Iiyama G-Master GB2560HSU-B1 , haven't seen you mention that monitor anywhere , but from reviews i have gathered around it seems like a decent panel , would like your input on this whole issue if you can spare the time , thank you so much in advance for both the work you've done all this and for the work you continue doing :)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on April 13, 2019, 08:35:13 am
Hi.
I am having real trouble deciding.
Which of the 24" 144hz TN monitors do you think has the best color/contrast in the <250 price segment?

I was about to buy the LG 24GM79G-B for 212.
It is height adjustable, the predecessor got excellent ratings at prad.de and it has a nice OSD with profile buttons.

Now after seeing your list I am not sure, should I rather choose the Viewsonic VX2458-mhd or the XG240R?
Or just get a VA? I heard people say in the 200 dollar range VA offers the most bang for buck, but I am a little afraid of noticeable ghosting.

Or better yet, bite the sour apple and get the Asus VG279Q for 360? The way you describe it seems like the nonplusultra at taht price point.

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 16, 2019, 12:34:50 am
eyeing over the Iiyama G-Master GB2560HSU-B1 , haven't seen you mention that monitor anywhere

I'm not aware of any proper reviews for that model, both iiyama and 24.5" TN quality are inconsistent, and all TN panels look awful compared to the U2715H, regardless of how much they cost.  AHVA, IPS and PLS versus TN panel comparisons here (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg387/#msg387).  Save up an extra 50$ for the Asus VG279Q (144hz AHVA panel) or look for the untested, but likely extremely similar Acer Nitro VG271 Pbmiipx which sometimes sells for less.  If these are not an option then consult the Best 24-27" 144hz 1080p Monitors with Free-Sync section (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) of my buying guide which ranks the top tested 144hz 1080p monitors.

Which of the 24" 144hz TN monitors do you think has the best color/contrast in the <250 price segment?

I don't live in Europe or rank monitors based on pricing (it varies by +/- 50$ too often) unless the company has a history of significantly overcharging for non-professional monitors like Eizo does. 

I was about to buy the LG 24GM79G-B for 212.

I removed it from the top 10 after seeing these measurements from Belgium Hardware (https://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/394626/7/lg-24gm79g-b.jpg) and factoring in the dark scene banding and gamma variance between the tested units.  Belgium Hardware AOC G2590PX measurements (https://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/423848/8/aoc-g2590px.jpg).

choose the Viewsonic VX2458-mhd or the XG240R?

Assuming consistency (there's only one review) the VX2458 is significantly better, however, as stated in my buying guide I don't know if it suffers from dark scene banding.  The AOC G2590PX is the safest TN choice since it does not suffer from dark content banding and consistently comes with decent preset gamma. 

Or just get a VA?

If you want a VA panel consult the Best 24-27" 144hz 1080p Monitors with Free-Sync section (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) of my buying guide.  They're fast enough if upgrading from a 60hz monitor and reviewers such as PC Monitors contain detailed analysis of their overdrive versus TN, and reviewers such as Belgium Hardware and PRAD provide pixel response time measurements which can be compared.  The PC Monitors AOC C24G1 review (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-c24g1/#Responsiveness) contains comparisons to 144hz TN panels and the Samsung FG series VA monitors.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Justhavocman on April 16, 2019, 02:44:38 am


  The AOC G2590PX is the safest TN choice since it does not suffer from dark content banding and consistently comes with decent preset gamma. 



Doesn't the G2590PX suffer from ghosting\blurry when used with an nvidia GPU?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 16, 2019, 05:34:34 pm
Doesn't the G2590PX suffer from ghosting\blurry when used with an nvidia GPU?

Where did you read that?  Read the Responsiveness section of PC Monitors review (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-g2590px/#Responsiveness).  Unlocking the color controls (set Game Mode To Off) slows the pixel response times down slightly, however this is not important unless one is going to calibrate (requires a colorimeter) or play with the settings since the monitor is very accurate out of the box.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on April 18, 2019, 03:17:12 pm
Assuming consistency (there's only one review) the VX2458 is significantly better, however, as stated in my buying guide I don't know if it suffers from dark scene banding.  The AOC G2590PX is the safest TN choice since it does not suffer from dark content banding and consistently comes with decent preset gamma. 

I just want to know if it has issues with ghosting? In the prad review they only talk about "brightness gradient" (Helligkeitsverlauf) and don't mention motion blur/ghosting. Is it the same thing?
The XG2402 for example has nearly 0 trailing as you may know. https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/XG2402-blur-144Hz.png

Currently I am only deciding between the vx2458-mhd or the 2401.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on April 19, 2019, 02:06:38 am
I just want to know if it has issues with ghosting?

It doesn't, and the XG2401 is slightly slower than the AOC newer 144hz Viewsonic TN panels.  The VX245 has less overshoot and some faster transitions which makes it better overdrive wise.

VX2458-mhd Ultra Fast Response Time Measurements by PRAD
Spoiler (hover to show)
[/spoiler]


ViewSonic XG240R Faster Response Time Measurements by PRAD
Spoiler (hover to show)
[/spoiler]

Such minute pixel response time differences are irrelevant to 99.99% of users, but the VX245 is cheaper and more accurate and consistent preset color accuracy wise.  I know since I received one today and measured the color presets as well as checked for dark scene banding and ghosting with the Ultra Fast Response Time setting.  It does not suffer from horrific dark scene banding like the Dell S2417DG, S2716DG and XG2402 (expect the same from the XG2401), but there is a little bit which is normal for a TN.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33764061468_0458a31f37_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TrBD9Q)
VIewSonic VX245-MHD (https://flic.kr/p/TrBD9Q) by Dr NCX (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/), on Flickr

The stand is very wobbly and it of course looks awful compared to AHVA/IPS/PLS, though it does not suffer from contrast, gamma and uniformity loss at 144hz unlike most 144hz TN panels including the XG monitors.  If you can afford the VG279Q get it, especially if upgrading from a 60hz monitor.  The VG279Q is fast enough, and faster pixel response times requires vastly sacrificing image quality.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on April 19, 2019, 09:56:30 am
I am upgrading from my XL2411T which got color lines after 5 years.

Hm, to be honest, now that you reassured me, I find myself struggling to justify double the price just for colors.
I now have a choice between
VX2458 for 170 new, xg2401 for ~140 3 months used, xg2402 190 like new

edit: just ordered the vx2458, lets see :)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on April 25, 2019, 07:21:38 am
The vx2458-mhd arrived. Good colors out of the box, coming from my placeholder IPS.
However, unlike the prad.de review and you suggest, it cannot be run in Ultra Fast response time, as this will add very obvious white trailing, just like with the XG2402 on Fastest:
(https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/XG2402-blur-144Hz.png)

That leaves Advanced, which is still decent.

(https://www.prad.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/viewsonic-vx2458-mhd-144hz-schaltzeiten-erweitert.png)



EDIT:

So after a couple days use, I swapped to the Ultra Fast setting again and the obvious white trailing is gone?
Is this normal behaviour? Does a monitor need some sort of warming up?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: henryr on May 07, 2019, 09:23:47 pm
I'm looking for a 27" monitor that is thin bezeled with the hopes of eventually buying a second. I plan to use it for general use, casual gaming, I will get back into development/programming, and watching movies. I'm thinking a 2560x1440 is ideal, and have narrowed the selection down to the following, in no particular order:

U2719D/U2719DC
S27H850QFN
VP2768

I've seen that NCX has recommended the S27H850QFU in this thread http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/?message=278.

My questions are:
1. Are those displays numbered based on the rank, with the S27H850QFU being the best option of the bunch?
2. Given that the S27H850QFU is a European model, is the S27H850QFN the American equivalent, and if so, should I just go for that over the U2719D(C)?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 08, 2019, 03:19:07 am
My questions are:
1. Are those displays numbered based on the rank, with the S27H850QFU being the best option of the bunch?
2. Given that the S27H850QFU is a European model, is the S27H850QFN the American equivalent, and if so, should I just go for that over the U2719D(C)?

1.) Yes.  Very few monitors under 1000$ are as accurate as the S27H850QFU, plus it offers top tier gaming performance aside from being limited to 75hz.

Samsung S27H850QFU Belgium Hardware Measurements
Spoiler (hover to show)

https://be.hardware.info/product/402766/samsung-s27h850qfu/fotos#open

1750$ Acer X27 Belgium Hardware Measurements
Spoiler (hover to show)

https://be.hardware.info/product/455497/acer-predator-x27/fotos#open

2.) Don't know hence not mentioning it, and the 75hz Asus VZ27AQ is a better choice for gaming than the Dell and ViewSonic.  If you can increase your budget a bit the 144hz Nixeus NX-EDG27Sv2 (with height adjustable stand) NX-EDG27v2 (non-adjustable stand) (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/msg298/#msg298) is also great.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 08, 2019, 03:50:25 am
I swapped to the Ultra Fast setting again and the obvious white trailing is gone?
Is this normal behaviour? Does a monitor need some sort of warming up?

It could be a firmware bug, also, some of the View Modes such as the Text Mode locks the Response Time setting to the default Fast setting.  Were you viewing the same content (Test UFO Ghosting Test (https://testufo.com/ghosting#background=004040&separation=160&pps=960&graphics=bbufo.png&pursuit=0)) when you noticed the lack of or presence of overshoot? 

When panning the camera at 60hz the grey circular Traveler in Destiny 2 (30 FPS on the PS4) suffers from a tiny bit of dark transparent overshoot ghosting when the sky is blue.  In game motion blur tends to increase overshoot ghosting.  Many monitors struggle when white and light blue; try dragging this screenshot from the Overwatch map Illios (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch/images/7/7d/Ilios_screenshot_1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/2000?cb=20160712060605) and pay attention to the giant statue and white clouds.  I have not done this yet but will be tomorrow, as well as more extensively looking for overdrive problems.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: henryr on May 08, 2019, 04:57:26 pm
My questions are:
1. Are those displays numbered based on the rank, with the S27H850QFU being the best option of the bunch?
2. Given that the S27H850QFU is a European model, is the S27H850QFN the American equivalent, and if so, should I just go for that over the U2719D(C)?

1.) Yes.  Very few monitors under 1000$ are as accurate as the S27H850QFU, plus it offers top tier gaming performance aside from being limited to 75hz.

Samsung S27H850QFU Belgium Hardware Measurements
Spoiler (hover to show)

https://be.hardware.info/product/402766/samsung-s27h850qfu/fotos#open

1750$ Acer X27 Belgium Hardware Measurements
Spoiler (hover to show)

https://be.hardware.info/product/455497/acer-predator-x27/fotos#open

2.) Don't know hence not mentioning it, and the 75hz Asus VZ27AQ is a better choice for gaming than the Dell and ViewSonic.  If you can increase your budget a bit the 144hz Nixeus NX-EDG27Sv2 (with height adjustable stand) NX-EDG27v2 (non-adjustable stand) (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/msg298/#msg298) is also great.

Greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer!!!!!! :)

I'm looking to have both monitors mounted to monitor arms at some point, so VESA is important. My apologies for not mentioning that earlier. Sadly, this means I would forego the Asus VZ27AQ. Regarding the Nixeus NX-EDG27Sv2, I am looking for a relatively thin bezel monitor to make dual use ideal, but I appreciate you offering it as a suggestion.

I'm sincerely considering pulling the trigger on the S27H850QFN instead of the U2717D(C). If/when it does arrive, what information can I use to see if it is in fact the same model, just the North American variant?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 09, 2019, 04:05:53 am
what information can I use to see if it is in fact the same model, just the North American variant?

They probably are the same if they have the same inputs and manual information (download from the official Samsung site and compare).  I don't know is if 75hz is natively supported or only supported when Free-Sync is activated in the AMD Catalyst Center, or if the Samsung has a separate Free-Sync mode which needs to be selected for 75hz to show up.   For example, the HP 27Q needs to have the Gaming Free-Sync Viewing Mode selected for Free-Sync to work and for 75hz to work without dropping frames (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/hp/27q#comparison_1426).  The HP 27Q is available in North America, but the unit Rtings tested suffered from severe image retention (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/hp/27q#comparison_1445) so I don't recommend it.

VESA mounts are over-rated and a waste of money in many cases if they do not allow for AHVA/IPS/PLS to be set high enough to prevent glow.

IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use Or View; How To Vastly Reduce AHVA/IPS/PLS Glow & Vastly Increase The Perceived Black (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/) Depth
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on May 11, 2019, 04:51:22 am

It could be a firmware bug, also, some of the View Modes such as the Text Mode locks the Response Time setting to the default Fast setting.  Were you viewing the same content (Test UFO Ghosting Test (https://testufo.com/ghosting#background=004040&separation=160&pps=960&graphics=bbufo.png&pursuit=0)) when you noticed the lack of or presence of overshoot? 

When panning the camera at 60hz the grey circular Traveler in Destiny 2 (30 FPS on the PS4) suffers from a tiny bit of dark transparent overshoot ghosting when the sky is blue.  In game motion blur tends to increase overshoot ghosting.  Many monitors struggle when white and light blue; try dragging this screenshot from the Overwatch map Illios (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch/images/7/7d/Ilios_screenshot_1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/2000?cb=20160712060605) and pay attention to the giant statue and white clouds.  I have not done this yet but will be tomorrow, as well as more extensively looking for overdrive problems.

Yes, I was on 144hz Standard when viewing the UFO ghosting test. It was present when I had just unpacked the monitor, but not anymore a couple days later. It now looks nearly trailfree.
Tried the statue test, couldn't really make out any artifacts.
Scrolling thru text isn't very pleasant, that and the lack of gamma options would be the only major downsides for me.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 11, 2019, 05:32:05 am
Yes, I was on 144hz Standard when viewing the UFO ghosting test. It was present when I had just unpacked the monitor, but not anymore a couple days later. It now looks nearly trail free.
Tried the statue test, couldn't really make out any artifacts.
Scrolling thru text isn't very pleasant, that and the lack of gamma options would be the only major downsides for me.

My units' Ultra Fast setting causes a bit of dark transparent overshoot on the white clouds when dragging the Overwatch Illios screen shot around quickly, but I did not see any with anything else I tried, and I still consider it top tier  The Text Viewing Mode and some of the others lock the Response Time setting to the slower Standard setting, but it's not an issue since the Standard Viewing Mode is the best.  The gamma is slightly too low, but it's also too high in the Text mode, and far less accurate when the other Viewing Modes are selected.  The VX2458-mhd is definitely the best TN panel I've tested aside from the BenQ Zowie RL2460HT (no review) since it doesn't suffer form horrific dark scene banding or gamma and contrast loss at 144hz.  The VX does have a gamma setting (Black Stabilization) but it decreases or increases the gamma far too much and greatly decreases the accuracy when changed.

VX2458-mhd Ghosting/Overdrive Analysis (http://Ghosting/Overdrive Performance) section from my review. I don't have a pursuit-capable camera so my photos look different than other reviewers who provide pursuit photographs which accurately simulate eye-tracking induced motion blur.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47762781192_febca221cc_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fLCJPs)
ViewSonic VX2458-mhd 144hz Text Mode vs Advanced vs Ultra Fast Response Time (https://flic.kr/p/2fLCJPs) by Dr NCX (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/), on Flickr

92hz overclocked Qnix QX2710 2560x1440 PLS panel I use for gaming when not testing monitors:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on May 11, 2019, 04:16:58 pm
Quote
Qnix QX2710
A korean AHVA with low hz? Do you like it?

Anyway, I wasn't satisfied with the vx2458-mhd's brightness, so it will be returned.
I found an XG240R for "only" 220 from a private seller and I decided to get that instead.
So far the only thing I dislike is the grainyness in bright scenes, which the VX did not have.
The luminence consistency is an improvement however. My vx had noticeable coronas, this one looks clean.

As for the AOC G2590PX, besides overall decent test results, Adam from Pcmonitors said he generally does not recommend it due to the clearly noticeable interlace patterns.
I guess there is always a tradeoff.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 11, 2019, 06:42:43 pm
A korean AHVA with low hz? Do you like it?

The single input (Dual-Link DVI) Qnix/X-Star monitors from 2013-2015 used at least three different Samsung PLS panels.  I lucked out and got a glow and PWM free matte Qnix (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3775/10570519353_244ca70e3d_o.jpg), a PWM free glossy Qnix (sold) in 2013, and a PWM free glossy X-Star in 2014.  I tested all four 144-165hz AUO AHVA panel using G-Sync monitors but stuck with the PLS panels since I prefer gloss, and of course prefer glow free matte over non-glow free matte.  They can only OC to 92-96hz and suffer from significantly more color streaking (vs 144-165hz AUO AHVA) which I do notice, but they're not slow enough to bother me even though I've used all of the fastest monitors.  Glossy and matte Qnix PLS gallery (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/albums/72157708372157565).

I wasn't satisfied with the vx2458-mhd's brightness, so it will be returned.
I found an XG240R for "only" 220 from a private seller and I decided to get that instead.
So far the only thing I dislike is the grayness in bright scenes, which the VX did not have.
The luminence consistency is an improvement however. My vx had noticeable coronas, this one looks clean.

The peak brightness of both the VX and XG is around 300-350cdm/2 and will vary along with the brightness and color uniformity.  Anyway, you reminded me that I did not notice obvious grain on the VX which is pretty rare for TN panels aside from the S2719DGF.  Please check the XG240R for dark scene banding (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg384/#msg384).
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: jayfkay on May 12, 2019, 03:14:28 am


So far the only thing I dislike is the grainyness in bright scenes, which the VX did not have.

The peak brightness of both the VX and XG is around 300-350cdm/2 and will vary along with the brightness and color uniformity.  Anyway, you reminded me that I did not notice obvious grain on the VX which is pretty rare for TN panels aside from the S2719DGF.  Please check the XG240R for dark scene banding (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg384/#msg384).

Yes, the VX does not have any grainyness, in fact it looks pretty damn sharp, thanks I suppose in part to the tighter pixel density. On the 240 the grid is definitely noticeable.
I would say my XG240R is definitely brighter than the VX I had, maybe in part due to the higher gamma I set.

Dark scene banding: On the VX it was barely noticeable (but I think I had black stabilizer on 40%).
Running the XG240R at 100 brightness and 2.4 gamma as well as black stabilizer on 8 and there is barely noticeable banding: very gradual and not very noticeable imo, nothing like the 2402 you pictured.
(https://i.imgur.com/NsmDlsX.jpg)

 Disabling black stabilizer removes most of it and lowering gamma to 2.8 as you recommended for color accuracy removes the banding entirely.
It may be worth noting that despite my relatively high brightness settings, I can still see the fully distinguished palette on http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php.


Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Lebowsky on May 23, 2019, 06:03:17 pm
hi NCX,

first of all, let me thank you for all your work and effort to the monitor review community, I had followed you advice a lot back then when I was active on [H] forums. I was glad to find out about your site!

I have an advice request that might not really fit the bill of what you usually look for / review in monitors, but I guess it doesn't hurt to try.

I am looking for a display (computer monitor or small tv) that supports 1080p signals over hdmi at 24 Hz (and also 23.976), 25 Hz and 30 Hz (and also 29.97). Reason: it will be used as proofing monitor for a signal sent to a projector when screening movies. Same signal as the one sent to the projector will be sent to the monitor using an hdmi splitter. The projector supports all those signals, so the monitor needs to handle them as well. (in addition to regular 50 Hz and 60 Hz).

I found it hard to easily search for a monitor that supports those refresh rates, I guess several do, but it's not really advertised in specs, reviews or in monitor databases. The display should be as cheap as possible. Image quality, glow, etc. are not really concerns. My current only "cheap" options are to find used Eizos (CS240, CS230, CX241, CX240, CG246) which support those signals according to the manuals, mainly because I couldn't find any other monitor where I am sure it supports all those refresh rates.

A TV could be an option as long as it's cheap, wall mountable and small (under 24"). Size and wall mountability also apply to the monitor requirements.

Any other ideas? Thanks!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on May 24, 2019, 07:26:48 pm
I am looking for a display (computer monitor or small tv) that supports 1080p signals over hdmi at 24 Hz (and also 23.976), 25 Hz and 30 Hz (and also 29.97). Reason: it will be used as proofing monitor for a signal sent to a projector when screening movies. Same signal as the one sent to the projector will be sent to the monitor using an hdmi splitter. The projector supports all those signals, so the monitor needs to handle them as well. (in addition to regular 50 Hz and 60 Hz).

Only PRAD sometimes checks for judder free playback, and 24 and 50hz support do not guarantee judder free playback.  I went through all of the 24-27" 1080p IPS/PLS PRAD reviews in my buying guide to check, and none support 24hz.  The Dell U2417H supports judder free playback of 24hz content at 60hz:

https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-dell-u2417h/6/

Then U2515H supports 1080p 24hz, but only supports judder free 60hz:

https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-dell-u2515h/6/#DVD

MPC-HC with MAD VR for non-blu-ray & DVD and Cyberlink Power DVD work with ReClock and may help.  There are more 27" 1440p monitors which support 24hz @1080p.  Ctrl + F in my 27" 1440p AHVA/IPS/PLS buying guide (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-2560x1440-ahvaipspls/), type in PRAD and check the DVD and Video section of their reviews and External Playback Rating; I went through the first page already and did not find anything.  If the Suitable for DVD/Video (external input) rating is 3/5 or less 24hz 1080p is not supported.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Lebowsky on May 25, 2019, 04:31:07 pm
That's what I thought. Well thanks a lot for checking it out so thoroughly! I guess I'll keep looking for a used 23" Eizo...
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: J.C. on June 19, 2019, 01:06:01 pm
I'm looking for a monitor for console gaming (xbox one x) and watching cartoons. A while back I had my eye on the Hp 24 Envy https://www.amazon.com/HP-23-8-inch-Premium-Display-Monitor/dp/B00S6DPBYI , but by the time I got around to buying it, I couldn't find it anywhere. Even sized/symmetrical bezels are important to me in a display, and I also liked the fact that the display didn't have too big or distracting of a logo or lights on the front, despite it's lack of external bezel messing with the perceived black depth. I saw earlier in this thread you had some 4K recommendations for someone with a similar question, and that got me wondering if the switch from 1080 to 4k is worth the price jump and the trade off of glossy to matte? I've got a budget of around $600, and have been looking at around $200-$400. I'll be using the monitor in dark/dim conditions about 50% of the time, and won't be playing any content above 60fps. I hadn't really given size too much thought, as long as it's not tiny, but fits on a desk (I'll be using it from 3-4+ feet away on console). My use of low frame rates and appreciation of gloss screens and symmetry make me consider going for a small T.V.?, but I fear it's compatibility and input delay when using it with a P.C. Any suggestions come to mind :) ?



P.S. (Sorry if I formatted something strange, not much experience with forums. And thanks in advance for the advice!)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: J.C. on June 19, 2019, 01:32:29 pm
Reading back over that, I'm definitely willing to use the full $600 for better picture quality. I'm not just strangely obsessed with monitor chassis. I tried out the BenQ GW2470ML https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824014441 back in November 2017 (it's taken me a while to get the money and time for monitor research, haha) as a value option, but the entire picture seemed slightly faded, like it had a thin white sheet over the real colors, that made me end up returning it. I've been postponing any visually appealing content since (a few Blu-rays, Triple A games, ect.).
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on June 21, 2019, 06:26:46 pm
So I've finally started looking for a 1440p 144hz monitor, and had some questions about a few. Since I don't really have a huge preference leaning one way or another for Gsync or Freesync, I won't mind either one if the monitor is better. Reason I'm asking here, is because I haven't really seen you directly compare the best Freesync ones with the best Gsync ones (Unless I missed it somewhere, which is likely) So I picked the top available ones from the two categories.

The few that are currently available in some way are: (There are others, but these ones are higher on your list than those)
Asus PG279Q/Z (Z at around $550-599 on Amazon, cheaper than the old one oddly enough) (The lack of gamma options is mostly what concerns me about this one, I'd rather not play the lottery, though if it's consistent gamma-wise I'll definitely consider it)
Acer XF270HU (Non-A thicker bezel version, the cheapest here at around $350-400, though seems to be only available/in stock and at that price on microcenter's site, not much of an issue, just something to note)
Acer XF270HUA (The most expensive for some reason and only seems to be on Newegg, at around $800-900, so this one is likely a no-go)

Wasn't sure if the non-A Acer is the same quality-wise, since I haven't seen that one tested/mentioned as much as the A version. Considering how much these things can vary, just want to be sure with that one.

Price isn't much of a concern here, but for obvious reasons I wouldn't want to overpay, in the XF270HUA's case :P

Am probably also going to get a decent color calibrator with one of these (Colormunki/i1DisplayPro) though I definitely don't want to rely on it when it comes to choosing the monitor.

Wish Viewsonic or AOC would come out with improved/new versions of theirs at some point, them being discontinued makes it impossible to find them, let alone at acceptable prices.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on June 22, 2019, 07:56:32 pm
if the switch from 1080 to 4k is worth the price jump and the trade off of glossy to matte?
 

I can't answer this for you, especially since there are so few glossy options now.  The HP 24 Envy comes the closest to matching good 4K monitors SDR (HDTV/REC 709 & sRGB) color space and vibrancy wise, but needs to be calibrated to compete with the best affordable 4K monitors, the Philips 276E8VJSB and LG 27UL550 (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/monitor-reviews-by-ncx/lg-27ul550-reivew-matte-3840x2160-lg-ah-ips-with-amd-free-sync/msg721/#msg721) which is not as accurate, but supports Free-Sync and has a perceived black depth increasing matte grey bezel.  The Dell S2419H (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-s2419h/) uses the same panel as the 24 Envy, as well as is a bit more accurate, but has the same issue with blues and oranges:

These panels suffer from <1mm thick vertical black lines which span from top to bottom of the panel when viewing some light colors such as light blue and orange.

The Xbox One X can down-sample 4K to 1080p monitors, but not with 4K Netflix content (15.26mb/s), which is significantly higher quality than most of the 1080p content (2-6mb/s streaming rate).  The Xbox One X also supports 1440p, so if in the US and able to deal with 20-27ms delay consider the Planar PXL2790 with Plasma Deposition Coating.  Clarity and Vibrancy: The Last Of The Plasma Deposition Coated 2560x1440 IPS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/clarity-and-vibrancy-the-last-of-the-plasma-deposition-coated-2560x1440-ips/msg735/#msg735).

There are zero TV's under 800$ US I'm willing to recommend due to low frequency LED PWM Dimming use and/or poor preset color accuracy.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on June 22, 2019, 09:14:00 pm
I haven't really seen you directly compare the best Freesync ones with the best Gsync ones

There's no point since 99.9% of people I've seen ask about 144hz "IPS" either don't want to spend more than a certain amount which excludes G-Sync monitors, or 100% want Free-Sync for their AMD gpu or G-Sync for their Nvidia gpu.  Also, I won't recommend monitors not officially confirmed by Nvidia (the Acer XF270HU isn't, yet (https://io.mt/nvidia-gsync-freesync-supported-monitors/)) to be G-Sync compatible for G-Sync compatible gaming, as well as avoid the subject due to compatibility issues.

The PG279QZ is the best choice if willing to buy a colorimeter,  to ensure variable overdrive functionality, as well as slightly superior overdrive performance compared to the XF270HU:

Acer XF270HU 144hz Overdrive Measurements by PRAD (https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-acer-xf270hua-gaming-monitor-ueberzeugt/4/)
Spoiler (hover to show)

Rtings proved the PG279QZ and PG279Q's overdrive performance is nearly identical so I'll use PRAD's measurements to better compare the Acer and Asus

Asus PG279Q 144hz Overdrive Measurements by PRAD (https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-acer-xf270hua-gaming-monitor-ueberzeugt/4/)
Spoiler (hover to show)


Neither monitor is perfectly accurate, and the XF270HU has gamma settings to combat the potentially low gamma the AHVA panels can come with (PRAD measured nearly linear 2.3 gamma while PG279Q's usually come with sRGB gamma curves), but the PG279QZ has better overdrive and G-Sync.  I might switch my recommendation to the XF270HU if Nvidia listed it as officially supported, but I have not read much about or gamed with a G-Sync compatible monitor (I have a 980 ti) and thus can not confidently do so.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: MagicalChicken on June 22, 2019, 09:32:51 pm
Thanks, will likely report back with colorimeter readings once I get them. Maybe even updated readings from my XG2402, as I don't really trust my current i1Pro 2's highly varied results (And is just sometimes a pain to use as things don't seem to always support it right by default)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on June 22, 2019, 09:57:26 pm
Thanks, will likely report back with colorimeter readings once I get them. Maybe even updated readings from my XG2402, as I don't really trust my current i1Pro 2's highly varied results (And is just sometimes a pain to use as things don't seem to always support it right by default)

If you value your time pay the extra money for the i1 display pro which reads much faster than the Colormunki.  Also, in HCFR click the Measures Men>Parameters and set Number of Grayscale Measurements to 100 and the rest to 16 for much more precise measurements (Yasamoka, the creator of the ICC Profile enforcing Color Sustainer program told me about this).  Doing so will take much longer, but also make your adjustments more precise, and measurements more accurate.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: deutronomio on June 25, 2019, 07:26:42 am
Hello,
Thanks for all the info you have been providing us. ;)

I have a 9 year old samsung that I have been trying to replace for almost a year. :(
Last year, I bought a ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q on a Black Friday promotion. But after going through 2 units, I requested my money back because of the scary amount of back Light bleeding.
I had no idea that the quality control was this bad for monitors, specially for monitors that are so expensive.

I have been following your reviews for some months now, and I am looking to get the Acer Nitro VG270UP, Innolux version, because is the only version available.
I have been reading some reviews that talk about Flickering issues with this Innolux panels, specially this VG270UP model. Others also complain about dead pixels and back light bleeding.
The reviews are from the beginning of the year. Do you think this problems have been fixed?
Do you have anymore recommendations for this price target?
I live in Portugal and the current asked price for the Acer Nitro VG270UP is 405€. I don't mind spending more money if I think that it is a better deal and that will last. The Gigabyte Aorus AD27QD is 608€. Is the the 200€ difference worth it?
I mainly use the monitor for some coding, gaming, browsing the web and occasionally a Movie/Show.
Thanks.


 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on June 27, 2019, 06:00:06 pm
Do you have anymore recommendations for this price target?

No.  Monitors not listed in my Best Reviewed Flicker Free buying guides are more likely to be untested rather than mediocre or awful.


I live in Portugal and the current asked price for the Acer Nitro VG270UP is 405.  I don't mind spending more money if I think that it is a better deal and that will last. The Gigabyte Aorus AD27QD is 608. Is the the 200 difference worth it?

No.  The Gigabyte is basically the same monitor with more accurate color presets.  The money saved can be put towards an accurate colorimeter (X-Rite colormunki or i1 display pro) for calibration which will provide much better image quality.

Make sure to read my articles or watch my videos about display brightness, display height and lighting:

IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use Or View; How To Vastly Reduce AHVA/IPS/PLS Glow & Vastly Increase The Perceived Black Depth (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/)
Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/display-brightness-room-lighting-the-importance-of-light/)


Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: J.C. on July 13, 2019, 11:41:49 am
@NCX Sorry for the late reply, but thank you so much for all the resources and recommendations!!! Ordered the LG 27UL550 :)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on July 27, 2019, 02:50:50 am
So.

I grabbed myself a MSI MAG271CQR and all I can say it's been a nightmare. Colour banding is horrendous as is the black to white banding.  Flickering in game menus and OSD locksups.

I sent it off for the FW to be updated as apparently this should have fixed it. It didn't. I've now returned the monitor to the seller as 'Not fit for purpose'

I'm back on the hunt.

Im looking for something along the lines of

27"
2560x1440
G-Sync compatible/GSync/Freesync
Gaming and Web Development friendly
Non Grainy coating

Been looking at the XV272U. It's currently the same price as the VG270 or the VG271.

The Gigabyte looks nice too, I know it's the same panel but the extras and ability to update the FW myself is quite a cool feature.

The new LG looks quite interesting too but the release date just seems to keep getting pushed back and obviously it's new, there's new reviews etc etc.

Currently using my Dell 2515H.  I do love the coating on this one!

I've also got a colormunki so calibration shouldn't be an issue

Has anyone got any advice for me?

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 28, 2019, 04:20:22 pm
XV272U. It's currently the same price as the VG270 or the VG271.

Best 144hz 1440p Monitors with Free-Sync (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg337/#msg337)

The XV272 is more accurate than the Innolux IPS panels in the Gigabyte, VG270 (AHVA version no longer available AFAIK), and the VG271 which does not come with a height adjustable stand or offer as much faux-HDR support as the XV272.  Beware of potential signal loss/flickering Innolux IPS panel issues which I recommend researching first, and consider looking for the Acer XF270HUA which is as accurate as the XV272, but has a faster AUO AHVA panel.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on July 29, 2019, 08:29:59 am
XV272U. It's currently the same price as the VG270 or the VG271.

Best 144hz 1440p Monitors with Free-Sync (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg337/#msg337)

The XV272 is more accurate than the Innolux IPS panels in the Gigabyte, VG270 (AHVA version no longer available AFAIK), and the VG271 which does not come with a height adjustable stand or offer as much faux-HDR support as the XV272.  Beware of potential signal loss/flickering Innolux IPS panel issues which I recommend researching first, and consider looking for the Acer XF270HUA which is as accurate as the XV272, but has a faster AUO AHVA panel.

Thanks for this. I've read through the link you provided but still wanted a bit of advice!

Will have a look at the XF270 and see what the pricing/availability is like in the UK.

Looks like the XF270 is discontinued in the UK. No mention of it on the acer site and retailers don't tend to stock it.

The XB271HU is available for around 500.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on July 31, 2019, 10:52:07 pm
The XB271HU is available for around 500.

The XB271HU is significantly less accurate than the PG279Q and XV272, as well has has inferior overdrive with more overshoot than the PG279Q.  If an owner of a G-Sync compatible card G-Sync>G-Sync compatible, and all of the AHVA panels have faster pixel response times than the Innolux IPS.  Sadly none of the true G-Sync AHVA panels aside from the discontinued ViewSonic XG2703-GS came close to matching the preset color accuracy of the best Free-Sync AHVA/Innolux IPS, and and all but the PG279QZ are 3-4 years old and due for unannounced replacements.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 01, 2019, 03:18:48 am
The XB271HU is available for around 500.

The XB271HU is significantly less accurate than the PG279Q and XV272, as well has has inferior overdrive with more overshoot than the PG279Q.  If an owner of a G-Sync compatible card G-Sync>G-Sync compatible, and all of the AHVA panels have faster pixel response times than the Innolux IPS.  Sadly none of the true G-Sync AHVA panels aside from the discontinued ViewSonic XG2703-GS came close to matching the preset color accuracy of the best Free-Sync AHVA/Innolux IPS, and and all but the PG279QZ are 3-4 years old and due for unannounced replacements.

So the LG won't be here in the UK until September so that pretty much rules that one out.

The XV272U has gone back up in price. So it's a toss up between

XV272U
AD27QD
AGON AG271QG

I don't think there's much else really
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 03, 2019, 10:28:09 pm
AGON AG271QG

If similarly priced get the AG271QG since it offers equal or superior (depending on panel lottery) image quality to the PG279Q (it may also come with low gamma and lacks gamma settings while the AG271QG does not) once the gamma is set to Mode 3, and offers equal gaming performance.  I did not mention it before since it was discontinued in many countries a few months ago.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 04, 2019, 05:09:11 am
AGON AG271QG

If similarly priced get the AG271QG since it offers equal or superior (depending on panel lottery) image quality to the PG279Q (it may also come with low gamma and lacks gamma settings while the AG271QG does not) once the gamma is set to Mode 3, and offers equal gaming performance.  I did not mention it before since it was discontinued in many countries a few months ago.

Cheers for your input.

I've settled with the AD27QD. Panel seem fine, no obvious glow to it.

I've calibrated it too with a displaymunki/DisplayCal and the results are fantastic! I couldn't be happier.

Wasn't the cheapest at 529. But the ability to update the FW myself is a bonus after the fiasco with the MSI. I just wish the changelogs were a bit more detailed!

I've left it running at 120hz 10 bit for the time being. I'm not pushing that 144fps just yet with my current card (60-110) on average.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 09, 2019, 05:25:46 am
The only minor thing i have noticed is that the top left/right corner is cooler than the rest of the screen.

Not sure if this is a common/widespread issue or if it's something i'll naturally get use to?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 13, 2019, 12:04:44 am
The only minor thing i have noticed is that the top left/right corner is cooler than the rest of the screen.

Not sure if this is a common/widespread issue or if it's something i'll naturally get use to?

Cool-to-warm or vice versa panel tinting is normal, but I can't make a precise judgement of the severity without seeing the panel myself.  I have measured the black, color temperature and white uniformity of dozens of panels and tend to not notice sub 20% variations which is why I don't provide uniformity measurements anymore unless I can instantly see dis-uniformity when visually assessing panel uniformity, or lack of.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 13, 2019, 04:04:17 am
The only minor thing i have noticed is that the top left/right corner is cooler than the rest of the screen.

Not sure if this is a common/widespread issue or if it's something i'll naturally get use to?

Cool-to-warm or vice versa panel tinting is normal, but I can't make a precise judgement of the severity without seeing the panel myself.  I have measured the black, color temperature and white uniformity of dozens of panels and tend to not notice sub 20% variations which is why I don't provide uniformity measurements anymore unless I can instantly see dis-uniformity when visually assessing panel uniformity, or lack of.

Looks worse when i've calibrated it. I've tried my best to grab some images of it here: https://imgur.com/a/gLJFfR9

tends to be top right and left and quite cool.

If there's a better way to get a photo, let me know!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: rockz3r on August 16, 2019, 12:59:56 pm
So , I was pretty much sure about getting the AOC C24G1 since I was looking for a new 144hz monitor and did not want to get a TN , but last week another monitor got released in India.  https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07WLW8QWN Acer VG240YP it uses Panda IGZO  IPS panel and is 144hz and is available at the same price as the AOC , now I am super confused which one is better. Since I am worrying if a cheap IPS panel is as good as the Va on the AOC . Can you give your opinion on this? My use will mostly be gaming , browsing and bit of content streaming.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 17, 2019, 02:12:48 pm
Looks worse when i've calibrated it. I've tried my best to grab some images of it here: https://imgur.com/a/gLJFfR9

Looks fine for a cheap panel.  If you want better uniformity you're going to have to forgo 144hz and buy a professionally oriented monitor (Eizo CG & CX, NEC P or Viewsonic VP series), or exchange it and hope to get lucky, besides, how often are you viewing full screen colors and shades, especially grey?

I am super confused which one is better. Since I am worrying if a cheap IPS panel is as good as the Va on the AOC . Can you give your opinion on this? My use will mostly be gaming , browsing and bit of content streaming.

There are no reviews for that Acer yet, so I can't determine if it is better or worse, but I would choose it over a curved VA panel any day since I neither like curved panels or VA panels for gaming.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 17, 2019, 02:50:41 pm
Looks worse when i've calibrated it. I've tried my best to grab some images of it here: https://imgur.com/a/gLJFfR9

Looks fine for a cheap panel.  If you want better uniformity you're going to have to forgo 144hz and buy a professionally oriented monitor (Eizo CG & CX, NEC P or Viewsonic VP series), or exchange it and hope to get lucky, besides, how often are you viewing full screen colors and shades, especially grey?

I am super confused which one is better. Since I am worrying if a cheap IPS panel is as good as the Va on the AOC . Can you give your opinion on this? My use will mostly be gaming , browsing and bit of content streaming.

There are no reviews for that Acer yet, so I can't determine if it is better or worse, but I would choose it over a curved VA panel any day since I neither like curved panels or VA panels for gaming.

I sent it back and got a replacement from a different retailer.

Same build date of May 2019. Panel looks slot better in terms of uniformity, a little cooler towards the bottom left but I've only had it up and running for an hour or so.

Only issue I have come across is the OSD application. Updated to FW07 from FW02, (Which I know it's running because sRGB emulation mode is there) however it's showing as FW02 on the OSD app.

Tried a reflash but still showing it. Hopefully when 8 appears it'll sort itself out. I've dropped Gigabyte a message to question this too.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: rockz3r on August 18, 2019, 12:56:22 am
Also , can you tell me if this is the same as the AcerVG271 ? https://www.amazon.in/Acer-Nitro-VG270P-Gaming-Monitor/dp/B07VZ5TWVV . Same specs from what I can tell and costs around 290$ . Maybe just different regional names? And , if yes,  does the 27 inch being a  1080p bother ?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on August 18, 2019, 10:35:36 am
Looks worse when i've calibrated it. I've tried my best to grab some images of it here: https://imgur.com/a/gLJFfR9

Looks fine for a cheap panel.  If you want better uniformity you're going to have to forgo 144hz and buy a professionally oriented monitor (Eizo CG & CX, NEC P or Viewsonic VP series), or exchange it and hope to get lucky, besides, how often are you viewing full screen colors and shades, especially grey?

I am super confused which one is better. Since I am worrying if a cheap IPS panel is as good as the Va on the AOC . Can you give your opinion on this? My use will mostly be gaming , browsing and bit of content streaming.

There are no reviews for that Acer yet, so I can't determine if it is better or worse, but I would choose it over a curved VA panel any day since I neither like curved panels or VA panels for gaming.

I sent it back and got a replacement from a different retailer.

Same build date of May 2019. Panel looks slot better in terms of uniformity, a little cooler towards the bottom left but I've only had it up and running for an hour or so.

Only issue I have come across is the OSD application. Updated to FW07 from FW02, (Which I know it's running because sRGB emulation mode is there) however it's showing as FW02 on the OSD app.

Tried a reflash but still showing it. Hopefully when 8 appears it'll sort itself out. I've dropped Gigabyte a message to question this too.


It's an OSD Application error. Confirmed by a few users.

Will give this one a week or so to bed in and see how the uniformity goes.

I think i'm just going to have to realise that a 'Perfect' panel at this resolution and Hz doesn't exist and probably won't anytime in the near future.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: supertx2 on August 23, 2019, 03:27:52 am
Hi NCX do you think the Samsung C27FG73 have better colors than the asus VG279Q?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on August 23, 2019, 04:35:46 pm
Also , can you tell me if this is the same as the AcerVG271 ? https://www.amazon.in/Acer-Nitro-VG270P-Gaming-Monitor/dp/B07VZ5TWVV . Same specs from what I can tell and costs around 290$ . Maybe just different regional names? And , if yes,  does the 27 inch being a  1080p bother ?

I can't since it has not been tested, but it looks the same.

does the 27 inch being a  1080p bother ?

I can't determine this for you.  I find 27" 1080p fine for 75cm/2.5ft+ viewing distances, but you may not.

Hi NCX do you think the Samsung C27FG73 have better colors than the asus VG279Q?

VA panels have less accurate, even and vibrant color than AHVA/IPS/PLS due to horizontal gamma shift (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ahva-ips-pls-vs-tn-vs-va/msg657/#msg657).  The C27FG73 does over-saturate colors if not set to the sRGB mode and has higher contrast and a perceived black depth increasing grey bezel, but it can't display colors as accurately and evenly as the VG279Q.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: timtron on September 22, 2019, 05:16:42 pm
Hello, I'm looking for a new budget low-mid end monitor. My budget is about 140 USD. I'm thinking about getting a IPS monitor, i was also considering VA but it seems like there aren't good ones at this price point. These are the specifications im looking for: 24", 60-75Hz refresh rate, 5 ms response time, low input lag, full HD, 250+ nits brightness, flicker free, low blue light, hdmi and/or displayport, i really want it to be easy on the eyes. Freesync could be a nice touch but it isn't necessary. I'm going to be using this monitor for writing, watching videos and shows, gaming, programming and browsing.

I'm currently eyeing the AOC 24V2Q, the only issues i have with it are IPS glow/BLB and that it's actual response time isn't 5ms as advertised, in both reviews you listed (PlayWare's- http://playwares.com/dpreview/56817843 and PCLab's - https://pclab.pl/art80242-2.html) they list it as higher than 5ms. The former lists it as 8ms by default and it can get to 6-7ms with the recommended overdrive settings, the latter lists it as 18,4 ms!!! Are the results from the second link correct?

The Acer R241Ybmid also seems like a decent option but i can't find you mentioning it or recommending it.
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on September 25, 2019, 01:51:25 am
it seems like there aren't good ones at this price point.

There are very few good panels of any type available for under 175$ US, and 60hz VA panels have significantly slower pixel response times than AHVA/IPS/PLS.  Also low blue light is a scam without RGB back-lighting which only high end monitors.  Turn down the Green setting to make any display more yellow and "Low Blue Light".

the only issues i have with it are IPS glow/BLB

All displays can suffer from back-light bleed, and AHVA/IPS/PLS glow is a panel flaw with which can nearly be completely reduced by changing their display height and not viewing them same way as a TN panel:

IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use Or View; How To Vastly Reduce AHVA/IPS/PLS Glow & Increase The Perceived Black Depth (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/)[/url]

Back-light bleed can often be reduced to nearly imperceptible amount by not cranking the display brightness and placing the display at the correct height.  Also it's unrealistic to expect to get a completely back-light bleed free display for under 1000$, though it does happen.

Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/display-brightness-room-lighting-the-importance-of-light)

that it's actual response time isn't 5ms as advertised

All manufacturer provided response times are fake and usually around 50% faster/lower than the true measured average pixel response time.  Compare the AOC measurements to a few other 60hz AHVA/IPS/PLS panels tested by the same reviewer and see that they're very similar.

The former lists it as 8ms by default and it can get to 6-7ms with the recommended overdrive settings, the latter lists it as 18,4 ms!!! Are the results from the second link correct?

PC Lab PL (rise + fall response time for high total) and Playwares are using different testing methods, so only compare measurements by the same reviewer.  Also consider spending more on the Samsung S24E650PL (https://pclab.pl/art80242-15.html) since it is a bit faster and offers top tier SDR (HDTV/REC 709) image quality comparable to vastly more expensive displays (full SDR color space coverage and preset gamma and RGB level accuracy), and is a few ms (14ms vs 18ms)  faster than the AOC, though the AOC supports 75hz.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: timtron on September 25, 2019, 10:33:09 am
Back-light bleed can often be reduced to nearly imperceptible amount by not cranking the display brightness and placing the display at the correct height.  Also it's unrealistic to expect to get a completely back-light bleed free display for under 1000$, though it does happen.

Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/display-brightness-room-lighting-the-importance-of-light/)

Thanks, didin't know that brightness affected black-light bleeding.
Regarding brightness, the AOC 24V2Q had an option to increase the brightness to over the 250 nits it's listed as having, and both Playware's and PC Lab's reviews mentioned that also increased the contrast a bit, to 1400:1 and 1284:1 respectively. I was going to ask if a high contrast would be relevant to my needs but if high brightness increases BLB i guess i don't need higher brightness that much.


PC Lab PL (rise + fall response time for high total) and Playwares are using different testing methods, so only compare measurements by the same reviewer.  Also consider spending more on the Samsung S24E650PL (https://pclab.pl/art80242-15.html) since it is a bit faster and offers top tier SDR (HDTV/REC 709) image quality comparable to vastly more expensive displays (full SDR color space coverage and preset gamma and RGB level accuracy), and is a few ms (14ms vs 18ms)  faster than the AOC, though the AOC supports 75hz.

So if PC Lab is using a different testing method, what response time should i be looking for in their tests with casual gaming in mind? What rise + fall response time will avoid ghosting and is good for casual gaming? Is 18,4 ms good enough on a 75Hz monitor? What about 14ms on a 60Hz?
I saw that PC Lab calculate the required response time by using the frequency - 16,7 ms for the 60Hz Samsung S24E650PL and 13,3ms for the 75Hz AOC 24V2Q. From my understanding the response time should be under these values to avoid ghosting. And AOC's is over it (18,4 ms). Is it a bad idea to use the AOC 24V2Q for gaming or is it good enough?

The Samsung S24E650PL costs quite a bit here for a new one. But i found some deals on second hand ones for even less than the AOC monitor. Should i get a second hand Samsung S24E650PL?

I also noticed some other small differences between the monitors. The Samsung one has an adjustable stand which is really neat. The AOC one has freesync (48-75Hz), it has a little bit more screen space, takes a little less space on the desk and is thinner.
What's SDR?

Thanks for the response!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: timtron on September 25, 2019, 04:53:14 pm
All manufacturer provided response times are fake and usually around 50% faster/lower than the true measured average pixel response time.  Compare the AOC measurements to a few other 60hz AHVA/IPS/PLS panels tested by the same reviewer and see that they're very similar.

Just took your advise and i can confirmed a lot of budget monitors on PC Lab pl are measured as having 17-18 ms. You are right, they're often similar if not the same. 18 ms is stated as being a bit too much for some games, in one translation they specified esports games, don't know about any other (casual) games. 17 ms is the middle option from what i've gathered, and under 16,7 ms on 60 Hz is the most optimal.

I wanted to ask a few more questions:
Can't i fix the high response time on the AOC 24V2Q with the overdrive options? PC Lab doesn't mention overdrive, or if they did i somehow skipped it. Playware suggests using Low/Medium overdrive because higher options can cause overshoot.
Are videos/movies/shows affected by ghosting, inverse ghosting, overshoot and other similar issues?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on September 28, 2019, 02:10:13 am
I was going to ask if a high contrast would be relevant to my needs but if high brightness increases BLB i guess i don't need higher brightness that much.

The higher the contrast the better, assuming the panel has uniform brightness and color distribution rather than just a high contrast center which is common.  AHVA/IPS/PLS with >1200:1 are very rare, and the same two panels may (less likely now, but used to be expected from pre 2012 panels) have up to a 40% contrast ratio variance.  Reduced glow and uniformity are superior to a high contrast panel with more glow and back-light bleed.

What rise + fall response time will avoid ghosting and is good for casual gaming?

Oscilloscope measurements and photos can prove all 60hz LCD panels, many CRT's and plasma's suffer from ghosting (color streaking for fast pixel response times and smearing for long pixel reaction times) or phosphor trailing (CRT and plasma) which must not be confused with sample and hold motion blur which both LCD and OLED suffer from, and is reduced by increasing the refresh rate (60 to 75 to 120hz, ect). 

Almost all AHVA/IPS/PLS panels are fast enough for the majority (which you may not be part of)...those who are not using a high refresh rate CRT or overshoot ghosting and PWM blur free TN.

Is 18,4 ms good enough on a 75Hz monitor? What about 14ms on a 60Hz?

I can't answer this for you, but can guess YES if you're not using a PWM blur free TN without overshoot.

My monitor (Qnix QX2710) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/48465449976/in/dateposted-public/) versus the Acer X27 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/48465606777/in/dateposted-public/) whose response times you can look up here (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/msg35/#msg35).  I also use an HP 24 Envy which is very similar to the AOC and significantly faster than my Qnix.  I always notice the response time flaws, including flaws from the fastest TN panels, but I can't stand using them, which is a common opinion from AHVA/IPS/PLS panel owners.

Is it a bad idea to use the AOC 24V2Q for gaming or is it good enough?

PC Lab PL measured 7.5ms for the TN panel in the BenQ GL2580 (https://pclab.pl/art80242-5.html)...which is a Far Cry off the claimed 1ms response time.  I think the AOC is more than good enough, but if you want a significantly faster monitor buy a TN.

Should i get a second hand Samsung S24E650PL?

How much is a new Samsung versus AOC?  If PC gaming with a Free-Sync compatible graphics card the AOC is probably the better choice since it supports Free-Sync and 75hz, though the Samsung can probably overclocked to 71-75hz, has a height adjust-able stand, better image quality and is faster.  I can not recommend second hand monitors without knowing where they come from and what condition they come in.

What's SDR?

Standard Dynamic Range (HDTV/REC 709 and sRGB color space which are extremely similar and the color spaces most content uses) versus High Dynamic Range/HDR which is a form of wide gamut color quite different to the Adobe RGB standard.

fix the high response time on the AOC 24V2Q with the overdrive options?

Don't know, and the AOC response times are normal for AHVA/IPS/PLS.  Compare Playwares AOC measurements to a few others to be sure.

Are videos/movies/shows affected by ghosting, inverse ghosting, overshoot and other similar issues?

Everything is affected....but will most people notice?  No, especially in the case of the AOC as long as the overdrive is not set to the highest overshoot ghosting inducing setting.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: timtron on September 28, 2019, 05:28:51 am
How much is a new Samsung versus AOC?  If PC gaming with a Free-Sync compatible graphics card the AOC is probably the better choice since it supports Free-Sync and 75hz, though the Samsung can probably overclocked to 71-75hz, has a height adjust-able stand, better image quality and is faster.  I can not recommend second hand monitors without knowing where they come from and what condition they come in.

The Samsung is about 198 USD while the AOC is 137 USD. The used Samsung one is 101 USD

Im also considering the AOC I2490VXQ and BenQ GW2480. Which one is the best, the BenQ GW2480, 24v2Q or the I2490VXQ?
http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25%27-1080p-ipspls-monitors/?message=111
http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-24-25%27-1080p-ipspls-monitors/?message=113
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on September 28, 2019, 01:07:56 pm
The Samsung is about 198 USD while the AOC is 137 USD. The used Samsung one is 101 USD

I'm also considering the AOC I2490VXQ and BenQ GW2480. Which one is the best, the BenQ GW2480, 24v2Q or the I2490VXQ?

If the 100$ Samsung is the renewed and Prime backed model from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RN3GLTC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&psc=1) I'd try it out since they have a 30 day no hassle return policy, though they did drop the price of a new unit to 164$.

The 242Q is the best since it has slightly better preset color accuracy (gamma) than the I2490VXQ.  The BenQ is the slowest of the three and doesn't offer superior performance in any category. 
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: cmy44 on October 01, 2019, 11:27:56 pm
I am looking to get a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor for both gaming and media creation. I game pretty much across the board and need to use programs like photoshop and rhino for work.

I have been looking at the Dell s2719dg but have been reading a lot of mixed reviews so I was hoping for some guidance. My budget is hopefully less than 450 USD.

Any help would be most appreciated.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 05, 2019, 02:52:59 pm
I am looking to get a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor for both gaming and media creation. I game pretty much across the board and need to use programs like photoshop and rhino for work.

All TN panels (S2719DGF which can come with low preset gamma or washed out colors) are unsuitable for work which requires color accuracy since they suffer from vertically uneven colors and shades (gamma shift (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg335/#msg335) which results in washed out image quality), but there are multiple non-TN options in this price range.  If in the US the 330$ Acer XF270HU (https://www.microcenter.com/product/478859/acer-xf270hu-27-quot) is the best option since the newer models in the price range are worse since they use Innolux IPS panels with more ghosting (slower pixel response times) versus the AHVA panel in the XF270HU.  More alternatives:

Best 144-165hz 1440p Monitors with Free-Sync (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-144hz-monitors/msg337/#msg337)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: phaolo on October 17, 2019, 03:56:45 pm
Hello, I'm new to this forum.
I remember NCX's old thread, so I'm glad he decided to continue his monitor reviews even after the site debacle.
I chose my Acer XB241H thanks to him a few years ago. :)

Anyway, my ancient secondary monitor (1050p 60Hz) is breaking (flickers when turning on and it's getting worse) and I'm looking for a new one.
I use it mostly for OBS, or to watch videos while I do other things on the main display.
My GPU is a GTX 1070, btw.

Can you suggest me anything? My budget is around 150-250 $\.

I think the Asus VG248QE had a good review by you and it's currently 200$.
It's a 144Hz and can be adjusted + rotated vertically (I'm short on space).
It doesn't include G-Sync (VG248QG has it at 250), but I don't think it's necessary here.

However, it doesn't show up in the current "Best Reviewed Flicker Free 24-25" 1080p IPS/PLS Monitors".
I checked some of those models, but maybe only AOC I2490PXQU seemed ok for my needs?
I'm curious about IPS, but I'd hate to see glow\bleed on my display..

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 19, 2019, 01:53:23 pm
I think the Asus VG248QE had a good review by you and it's currently 200$.
It's a 144Hz and can be adjusted + rotated vertically (I'm short on space).
It doesn't include G-Sync (VG248QG has it at 250), but I don't think it's necessary here.

The VG248QE uses LED PWM Dimming so I can't recommend it, the VG248QG is untested, and both use TN panels.  The excellent AOC 24G2U (tested by PC Monitors (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-24g2u-24g2/)) is the only tested 24" 144hz IPS panel while the rest use TN or VA panels.  Based on PC Monitors review, I think the 24G2U is one of the best monitors under 1000$.

If a second 144hz monitor is a must I can only recommend the AOC 24G2U and best 144hz VA panels since (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-reviewed-flicker-free-144hz-1080p-monitors/msg388/#msg388) the Acer XB241H is equal or superior to the newest tested 24" TN panels.

AOC I2490PXQU seemed ok for my needs?

The Samsung S24E650PL is significantly better, and so is the AOC 24G2U.

I'm curious about IPS, but I'd hate to see glow\bleed on my display.


All displays can suffer from back-light bleed and glow, and AHVA/IPS/PLS glow is a panel flaw with which can nearly be completely reduced by changing their display height and not viewing them same way as a TN panel:

IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use Or View; How To Vastly Reduce AHVA/IPS/PLS Glow & Increase The Perceived Black Depth (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/)

Back-light bleed can often be reduced to nearly imperceptible amount by not cranking the display brightness and placing the display at the correct height.  Also it's unrealistic to expect to get a completely back-light bleed free display for under 1000$, though it does happen.

Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/display-brightness-room-lighting-the-importance-of-light)


Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: phaolo on October 20, 2019, 12:26:36 pm
"it's unrealistic to expect to get a completely back-light bleed free display for under 1000$"
 [..] "AHVA/IPS/PLS panels can not be viewed from above or while being looked down upon without suffering from obvious contrast loss or white glow or vibrancy loss."
Thanks for replying.

I use my monitors when sitting (normal), standing up (during exercise), laying down (from the bed).
TNs have the opposite annoyance of bad colors when looked from below, like in the third case.
Maybe an IPS could be useful for that.

For normal usage, I set my monitor's height so my eyes' level is at the above-middle part of them.
It seems the only position that doesn't cause neck pain after some time.
I imagine that IPS won't still have problems at such height.

The glow\bleed though.. I checked some videos and I quite dislike it.
Dark scenes aren't exactly uncommon in movies.
Also, I imagine it's going to get worse in time.

I'll have to think about it.

If a second 144hz monitor is a must I can only recommend [..]
Ah no, 144Hz isn't probably fundamental for a secondary monitor.
Do you have any additional recommendations at lower refresh rates?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: mr.b on October 23, 2019, 10:33:25 pm
Hello NCX,

PC Monitors says that my Dell U2417H has a white point of 6645K when I use its "Color Temp." (blue light reduction) setting at 5000K. I am trying to determine what the best bias light would be for this setting.

Right now I am using a 1600 lumen Feit 3000K "Warm White" A19 blub. The monitor's brightness is set at 22%. I experience some eye strain. I want to get a brighter bulb (maybe 2500 lumen) but I can't find an A19 with a 3000K color temperature.

As an alternative I could get a 2500 lumen 5000k bulb, disable the blue light reduction setting and use something like Ocushield to block the blue light. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on October 26, 2019, 12:01:36 pm
The glow\bleed though.. I checked some videos and I quite dislike it.
Dark scenes aren't exactly uncommon in movies.

If you follow my display brightness, height and lighting recommendations glow is not a problem

Also, I imagine it's going to get worse in time.

It does not, and back-light bleed can decrease over time once the monitor is setup and no longer has pressure put on it by the box which can warp the panel slightly and cause or increase bleed.

Do you have any additional recommendations at lower refresh rates?

I recommended the Samsung S24E650P which is one of the best (under 500$) and cheapest monitors around; the rest of my recommendations are in my buying guides (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/) and I don't recommended 60hz TN or VA panels. 


Right now I am using a 1600 lumen Feit 3000K "Warm White" A19 blub. The monitor's brightness is set at 22%. I experience some eye strain. I want to get a brighter bulb (maybe 2500 lumen) but I can't find an A19 with a 3000K color temperature.

The color temperature of the bias light doesn't matter, you have the brightness to light ration correct, and I bet you will dislike reducing the display brightness more since it's already set to around 80cdm/2 based on the measurements by PCM (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-u2417h-u2417ha/#Contrast_and_brightness) and TFTC (https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2417h.htm#contrast_stability).

As an alternative I could get a 2500 lumen 5000k bulb

Brighter bias lighting will improve the perceived black depth, but also make it harder to see details in dark scenes, and make the display appear dimmer.  Consider putting silver tape (I use 3$ Silver 3M Scotch Expressions Washi Tape (https://www.londondrugs.com/3m-scotch-expressions-washi-tape/M0004730.html?dwvar_M0004730_color=Silver&cgid=)) on the inner black bezel to vastly increase the perceived black without making details in dark content harder to see. 

I've been using this tape for over year and have removed and re-applied it a few times to see if it leaves residue.  Here's my HP 24 Envy with and without silver tape:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Bright grey, silver and white bezels and tape are the best way to improve the perceived black depth, which is something I wish I knew years ago since I would have bought a few rolls of 3$ tape instead of spending money and time on lights and spray painting bezels. 

Ocushield to block the blue light.
 
Standard gamut (most low and mid range) LCD panels are lit by blue W-LED's which are painted yellow to appear white (https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/led_backlighting.htm#different), and putting a filter (Gunnar glasses or Occushield) over the screen or in front of ones eyes is similar to using sunglasses, so you'll likely need to significantly increase the display brightness which is counter intuitive.  The OccuShield doesn't look like it makes displays look yellow like Gunnar glasses and Low Blue Light settings, but does make displays look a bit dimmer, and the OccuShield won't increase the perceived black depth since the U2417H's black bezel will still be black.  The only way to reduce Low Blue Light intake without reducing the brightness and/or image quality is to not use a W-LED back-lit display.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: mr.b on October 31, 2019, 10:50:40 pm
Hello NCX,

What do you normally set the contrast to on your monitor?
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 02, 2019, 12:52:52 pm
Hello NCX,

What do you normally set the contrast to on your monitor?

Default unless the reviewer specifically mentions that changing it will improve the color accuracy.  I always check the Lagom White Saturation page (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php) for contrast issues, such as green, pink or red tinting of the grey and white squares, though the color dominance may also or independently be caused by the red, green or blue color controls.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: rafa on November 04, 2019, 04:01:47 am
Hi,

I would like you to help me choose a monitor for the PS4 Pro.

I am in doubt among these monitors. Which would you choose in relation to price quality?

Benq EW3270U 439
LG 32uk550 344
LG 32UL750 450
Philips 326M6VJRMB 550
LG 27UK650 380

Any other that you think relevant?

I am looking forward to your response
regards
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 04, 2019, 07:17:40 am
I am in doubt among these monitors. Which would you choose in relation to price quality?

The 27UK650 is the best in terms of pricing, image quality and performance, but the Philips 276E8VJSB (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/msg160/#msg160)) is better (more accurate and one of the most accurate monitors under 1000) and usually cheaper. 

If after a VA panel the BenQ (review links (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-32'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/msg49/#msg49)) is better than the Philips (it under-saturates color when set to the sRGB mode (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/philips-326m6vjrmb/#Colour_reproduction)) while there are no reviews of the LG 32UL750.  The Philips has superior HDR color performance versus the BenQ, while the BenQ is better for non-HDR content, which is most content. None of the sub 800 27" 4K monitors properly support HDR, so if HDR color is a priority VA is the way to go.

AHVA/IPS/PLS versus VA comes down to personal preference; I vastly prefer AHVA/IPS/PLS's lack of horizontal gamma shift and slightly faster pixel response times versus VA panels higher contrast and HDR color support in the budget arena. AHVA/IPS/PLS versus VA image quality comparisons (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ahva-ips-pls-vs-tn-vs-va/msg657/#msg657)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: rafa on November 04, 2019, 10:06:42 am
Thanks for your reply.

If I have not misunderstood, with the IPS panel the best is the 27UK650, even better than the 27UL650?

As I understand Philips does not have FreeSync  276E8VJSB

If the panel is VA then the best would be the EW3270U

is that so?

What about the LG 32uk550? nothing is said and is very well priced for the features that it has, right?

I would like the monitor to be HDR.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: Jbennett360 on November 06, 2019, 03:47:42 am
It's good to see the AD27QD still getting FW updates, the latest being FW09 yesterday.

It's a shame the reviewers will never go back and revisit the changes.

For the average user, we have no idea if things are better or worse!
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 06, 2019, 08:02:25 am
with the IPS panel the best is the 27UK650, even better than the 27UL650?

They're basically the same monitor, as is the UL550, but the 550 had a perceived black depth increasing matte grey beze (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/32935852697/)l versus the 650 and 850's perceived black depth decreasing inner black or fake frame-less casing's bezel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97364704@N08/47977613967/).

The tested monitors are all ranked in the Best Monitor (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/msg29/#msg29) sections of my Best Reviewed Flicker Free 27" 4-5K AHVA/IPS/PLS (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/general-discussion/best-27'-4k-3840x2160-ahvaipspls-panels/) buying guide.

As I understand Philips does not have FreeSync  276E8VJSB

Correct, and the PS4 Pro does not support Free-Sync.  If you really want Free-Sync the ViewSonic XG2700-4K supports it, is very accurate and has a perceived black depth increasing grey bezel.  It uses an older panel (my VP2780-3K uses the same panel which I compared to the UL550) with a bit more glow than the UL550, but you probably will not notice unless your room lighting is very dim.

If the panel is VA then the best would be the EW3270U
 

Best for non-HDR content.  If some over-saturation is not a bother the Philips is better since it has back-light dimming and superior HDR color.

What about the LG 32uk550? nothing is said and is very well priced for the features that it has, right?

Untested. 

I would like the monitor to be HDR.

Nearly full HDR support from monitors costs >1500.  In this price range the HDR support offered by monitors is <30% and I would choose the Philips 276E8VJSB over every 4K monitor under 1000$ aside from the BenQ PD3200U and ViewSonic XG2700-4K.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: hyouke99 on November 08, 2019, 03:00:30 am
Hello NCX,

I truly respect that amount of free support and help you've given the monitor community over the years.

I am looking for 144 Hz 1 ms 24" gaming monitor. I only have 2 options because of the discount in my country. First option is AOC 24G2U and the second is Viewsonic vx2458-mhd. The thing is i really don't know if there is a real input lag difference between these two(respect to IPS and TN panel) or not.If there is no such a difference between them, isn't it better to choose AOC 24G2U over Viewsonic vx2458-mhd because of the quality advantages of IPS panel?

What would you suggest for me?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 09, 2019, 12:40:31 pm
I really don't know if there is a real input lag difference between these two

Most monitors have so-low-it's negligible amounts of input lag (<5ms) these days, including the AOC and ViewSonic.  The main difference between AHVA/IPS/PLS and TN panels is the pixel response time difference (amount of ghosting; TN are faster) and image quality.  If set at the correct height (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/) the AOC offers vastly superior image quality to the ViewSonic, and the AOC's pixel response times are fast enough to satisfy the vast majority of players.  Compare the AOC to the ViewSonic XG240R which has nearly identical pixel response time performance with the VX2458:

(https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/24G2U-blur-144Hz.png)

From PC Monitors Review (https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-24g2u-24g2/#Responsiveness)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: petersozzy on November 09, 2019, 09:33:44 pm
Hi NCX,

Very good work.

Please, I need an advice.
We dont have many options for monitors in my country nowaday.
I was looking for a 1440p 144hz game monitor. IPS very expensive for me. A VN Dell S2719DGF i can find here.

It is possible to say, in my case, if is better get a Dell S2719DGF or a good 1080p 144hz IPS/VA panel? (found the VA Samsung C24FG73,  C27FG73 and MSI Optix G27C2, and IPS Aoc 24g2 Gaming).

Thanks.


Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 10, 2019, 04:04:32 pm
a good 1080p 144hz IPS/VA panel? (found the VA Samsung C24FG73,  C27FG73 and MSI Optix G27C2, and IPS Aoc 24g2 Gaming).

Always good IPS or VA over TN, especially since the Dell S2719DGF is worse than some of the best 144hz 1080p TN panels since the Dell may come with very washed out colors and lacks gamma controls which can improve it.

I recommend the AOC 24G2 over 144hz VA panels.  Make sure to read and/or watch my guides about display height, display brightness and room lighting.

IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use Or View; How To Vastly Reduce AHVA/IPS/PLS Glow & Vastly Increase The Perceived Black Depth (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/ips-vs-tn-right-wrong-ways-to-use-or-view-how-to-vastly-reduce-ahvaipspls-glow-i/)

Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light (http://bestmonitorsbyncx.createaforum.com/display-improvement-advice/display-brightness-room-lighting-the-importance-of-light/)

Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: phaolo on November 12, 2019, 02:07:50 am
I recommend the AOC 24G2
Do you know how long is the base? Those protruding "spikes" could be a problem as a sideway display (my XB241H has those things too).

Also, on Amazon in my country that monitor is 200, do you think I could wait for some more discount? (it was added only 2 months ago)
Title: Re: Advice/Help Thread
Post by: NCX on November 13, 2019, 07:09:08 pm
Do you know how long is the base? Those protruding "spikes" could be a problem as a sideway display (my XB241H has those things too).

Also, on Amazon in my country that monitor is 200, do you think I could wait for some more discount? (it was added only 2 months ago)

No and don't know, but doubt it will go on sale since it's already competitively priced against 60-75hz IPS.